I assume that this is no longer a factor in the game, although it has been referenced in posts as recently as 2020 or so. Did this feature go away with the games creation of recruit rankings?

The very top recruits have always been available to all D1A teams to recruit. That doesn't mean it was equally easy or difficult for everyone, as prestige always matters. Texas and Oklahoma will have an easier time getting a recruit than Tulsa or North Texas, even though they're all D1A.

Is "vision" a factor in the lower divisions?

Posted by clayolson1 on 10/22/2025 11:35:00 PM (view original):
Is "vision" a factor in the lower divisions?

It is a huge factor. The more games you win, the better your vision becomes. The better your vision becomes, the better quality recruits, and more "undecided" recruits you can "see."

Recent real-life example: The second or third year I was at McMurry (TX) in Dobie D3, I compared my recruits to those of Cal Lutheran, the traditional power in my conference. I realized that I could only "see" two of the 14 guys he signed. I had no chance to recruit players of the same caliber, at least where initial attributes were concerned. A few seasons and quite a few wins later, I could see and sign much better players and McMurry eventually won its first national championship in any world.

Posted by tribewriter on 10/23/2025 12:25:00 PM (view original):

Posted by clayolson1 on 10/22/2025 11:35:00 PM (view original):
Is "vision" a factor in the lower divisions?

It is a huge factor. The more games you win, the better your vision becomes. The better your vision becomes, the better quality recruits, and more "undecided" recruits you can "see."

Recent real-life example: The second or third year I was at McMurry (TX) in Dobie D3, I compared my recruits to those of Cal Lutheran, the traditional power in my conference. I realized that I could only "see" two of the 14 guys he signed. I had no chance to recruit players of the same caliber, at least where initial attributes were concerned. A few seasons and quite a few wins later, I could see and sign much better players and McMurry eventually won its first national championship in any world.

I knew the better recruits part of vision but did not know undecided was part of that unless those higher-level recruits tend to be undecided.

Posted by waregl72 on 10/24/2025 9:33:00 AM (view original):

Posted by tribewriter on 10/23/2025 12:25:00 PM (view original):

Posted by clayolson1 on 10/22/2025 11:35:00 PM (view original):
Is "vision" a factor in the lower divisions?

It is a huge factor. The more games you win, the better your vision becomes. The better your vision becomes, the better quality recruits, and more "undecided" recruits you can "see."

Recent real-life example: The second or third year I was at McMurry (TX) in Dobie D3, I compared my recruits to those of Cal Lutheran, the traditional power in my conference. I realized that I could only "see" two of the 14 guys he signed. I had no chance to recruit players of the same caliber, at least where initial attributes were concerned. A few seasons and quite a few wins later, I could see and sign much better players and McMurry eventually won its first national championship in any world.

I knew the better recruits part of vision but did not know undecided was part of that unless those higher-level recruits tend to be undecided.

Hey Eric, as it was explained to me years ago, sim teams are also restricted by vision at DIII-DIAA. Sims don't generally have high enough success to give them that upper level vision and recruits don't "decide" on a school unless that school can sign them, aka being in their vision. Therefore, the upper crust recruits will be undecided. And, the closer your vision score gets to 190 the more undecideds will be available.

For those that may be unfamiliar with vision score:
most recent season wins multiply by 4
next recent season wins multiply by 3
next recent season wins multiply by 2
next recent season wins multiply by 1
add those four results
IE
Season 220 10 wins = 40
Season 219 12 wins = 36
Sesaon 218 15 wins = 30
Season 217 17 wins = 17
Total = 123

Season 220 19 wins = 76
Season 219 19 wins = 57
Sesaon 218 19 wins = 38
Season 217 19 wins = 19
Total = 190

The problem is WIS hasn't confirmed nor denied this and has not provided insight as to where the tier lines are as far has how many additional recruits one can see if these score reaches x. Will a score of 154 let you see 20 more recruits than a score of 150? Is that "20" the same jump each year or will one year only get you 16 more recruits going from 154 to 150? Hmmmm.....

Posted by majique on 10/24/2025 10:00:00 AM (view original):

Posted by waregl72 on 10/24/2025 9:33:00 AM (view original):

Posted by tribewriter on 10/23/2025 12:25:00 PM (view original):

Posted by clayolson1 on 10/22/2025 11:35:00 PM (view original):
Is "vision" a factor in the lower divisions?

It is a huge factor. The more games you win, the better your vision becomes. The better your vision becomes, the better quality recruits, and more "undecided" recruits you can "see."

Recent real-life example: The second or third year I was at McMurry (TX) in Dobie D3, I compared my recruits to those of Cal Lutheran, the traditional power in my conference. I realized that I could only "see" two of the 14 guys he signed. I had no chance to recruit players of the same caliber, at least where initial attributes were concerned. A few seasons and quite a few wins later, I could see and sign much better players and McMurry eventually won its first national championship in any world.

I knew the better recruits part of vision but did not know undecided was part of that unless those higher-level recruits tend to be undecided.

Hey Eric, as it was explained to me years ago, sim teams are also restricted by vision at DIII-DIAA. Sims don't generally have high enough success to give them that upper level vision and recruits don't "decide" on a school unless that school can sign them, aka being in their vision. Therefore, the upper crust recruits will be undecided. And, the closer your vision score gets to 190 the more undecideds will be available.

For those that may be unfamiliar with vision score:
most recent season wins multiply by 4
next recent season wins multiply by 3
next recent season wins multiply by 2
next recent season wins multiply by 1
add those four results
IE
Season 220 10 wins = 40
Season 219 12 wins = 36
Sesaon 218 15 wins = 30
Season 217 17 wins = 17
Total = 123

Season 220 19 wins = 76
Season 219 19 wins = 57
Sesaon 218 19 wins = 38
Season 217 19 wins = 19
Total = 190

The problem is WIS hasn't confirmed nor denied this and has not provided insight as to where the tier lines are as far has how many additional recruits one can see if these score reaches x. Will a score of 154 let you see 20 more recruits than a score of 150? Is that "20" the same jump each year or will one year only get you 16 more recruits going from 154 to 150? Hmmmm.....

So with that thought process, if a coached team has high vision, that coach leaves, and no one takes it over that SIM team would have high vision due to the success of the previous coach? Hence you might have a high-level recruit with only one SIM being considered off the bat.

This has always been a pet peeve of mine. The current vision setup is backwards. Especially for new players.

Currently, a new coach taking on a rebuild sees fewer players AND the players he does see have 3 sims on them. Pretty much impossible to fill your class. You don't have enough money to battle sims for all your recruits. Compared to an established coach with a winning record. He sees better players, and not only that they are Undecideds. Pay for one scout visit and that players is yours.

Logically, it should be opposite. The weaker players that the new coach sees aren't very good. In real life, those players wouldn't be highly sought after. They should be undecided. Now the better players that the established coach sees? They would be much more desired. Wouldn't it make sense that they would have other teams interested? So yea, an established coach sees better players, but he has to actually fight for them.

Football wise, this seems more realistic. Just as importantly, gamewise, it gives new players an easier time starting out. Maybe they stick around rather than quit in frustration. I just started a rebuild in div 2. It is very frustrating trying to recruit the way it is setup now....and I knew what to expect. How will a new player react?

Posted by waregl72 on 10/24/2025 10:35:00 AM (view original):

Posted by majique on 10/24/2025 10:00:00 AM (view original):

Posted by waregl72 on 10/24/2025 9:33:00 AM (view original):

Posted by tribewriter on 10/23/2025 12:25:00 PM (view original):

Posted by clayolson1 on 10/22/2025 11:35:00 PM (view original):
Is "vision" a factor in the lower divisions?

It is a huge factor. The more games you win, the better your vision becomes. The better your vision becomes, the better quality recruits, and more "undecided" recruits you can "see."

Recent real-life example: The second or third year I was at McMurry (TX) in Dobie D3, I compared my recruits to those of Cal Lutheran, the traditional power in my conference. I realized that I could only "see" two of the 14 guys he signed. I had no chance to recruit players of the same caliber, at least where initial attributes were concerned. A few seasons and quite a few wins later, I could see and sign much better players and McMurry eventually won its first national championship in any world.

I knew the better recruits part of vision but did not know undecided was part of that unless those higher-level recruits tend to be undecided.

Hey Eric, as it was explained to me years ago, sim teams are also restricted by vision at DIII-DIAA. Sims don't generally have high enough success to give them that upper level vision and recruits don't "decide" on a school unless that school can sign them, aka being in their vision. Therefore, the upper crust recruits will be undecided. And, the closer your vision score gets to 190 the more undecideds will be available.

For those that may be unfamiliar with vision score:
most recent season wins multiply by 4
next recent season wins multiply by 3
next recent season wins multiply by 2
next recent season wins multiply by 1
add those four results
IE
Season 220 10 wins = 40
Season 219 12 wins = 36
Sesaon 218 15 wins = 30
Season 217 17 wins = 17
Total = 123

Season 220 19 wins = 76
Season 219 19 wins = 57
Sesaon 218 19 wins = 38
Season 217 19 wins = 19
Total = 190

The problem is WIS hasn't confirmed nor denied this and has not provided insight as to where the tier lines are as far has how many additional recruits one can see if these score reaches x. Will a score of 154 let you see 20 more recruits than a score of 150? Is that "20" the same jump each year or will one year only get you 16 more recruits going from 154 to 150? Hmmmm.....

So with that thought process, if a coached team has high vision, that coach leaves, and no one takes it over that SIM team would have high vision due to the success of the previous coach? Hence you might have a high-level recruit with only one SIM being considered off the bat.

Yup.

The undecided vision for higher rated recruits only happens at DIII and DII, In D1AA the higher your vision, the more likely those higher rated players you want are covered by D1A sims, which are more expensive to knock off. This creates a false vision at D1AA, because you may only be able to compete for a couple of those recruits and then fall back to D1AA level recruits with sims on them or undecideds on TE, RB and LB. And those D1A sim covered recruits better be within your 180.

"Is "vision" a factor in the lower divisions?"

Yes, and frankly, it is the biggest cancer in the game. For a moment, consider prestige. Prestige certainly exists in this game; it is what I described here: "The very top recruits have always been available to all D1A teams to recruit. That doesn't mean it was equally easy or difficult for everyone, as prestige always matters. Texas and Oklahoma will have an easier time getting a recruit than Tulsa or North Texas, even though they're all D1A." The same is true at the lower divisions, the winningest teams have an easier time signing a recruit that all teams can compete for than does an historically poor team. Simply put, "The more games you win, the better your [prestige] becomes," as tribewriter described it. All of that is entirely reasonable. The historically-weighted "wins score" that Majique detailed above is a reasonable way to mathematically quantify prestige that tribewriter described generically. So far, so good -- all reasonable and consistent in a general way with real life.

So then what does "vision" contribute to GD that prestige doesn't already do? Nothing constructive or positive for game play. It does, however, introduce a poison, an illogical, arbitrary, absolute hard cap on recruiting: "I realized that I could only "see" two of the 14 guys he signed. I had no chance to recruit players of the same caliber, at least where initial attributes were concerned." If prestige were allowed to operate, as logically should have been the case, those 12 players would have still favored the more successful team. Again, that would be consistent with the real world, better players generally prefer better teams. But the coach in his "second or third year" at his team wouldn't have faced an absolute hard cap on the recruits he could pursue, completely unlike anything that exists in the real world that this game is supposed to simulate, and an anti-competitive influence on game play.

TLDR: Prestige is good, vision is cancer, and I'm not just stating an unsupported opinion, I'm explaining the reason why this is so.

Posted by realist9900 on 10/24/2025 10:47:00 AM (view original):
This has always been a pet peeve of mine. The current vision setup is backwards. Especially for new players.

Currently, a new coach taking on a rebuild sees fewer players AND the players he does see have 3 sims on them. Pretty much impossible to fill your class. You don't have enough money to battle sims for all your recruits. Compared to an established coach with a winning record. He sees better players, and not only that they are Undecideds. Pay for one scout visit and that players is yours.

Logically, it should be opposite. The weaker players that the new coach sees aren't very good. In real life, those players wouldn't be highly sought after. They should be undecided. Now the better players that the established coach sees? They would be much more desired. Wouldn't it make sense that they would have other teams interested? So yea, an established coach sees better players, but he has to actually fight for them.

Football wise, this seems more realistic. Just as importantly, gamewise, it gives new players an easier time starting out. Maybe they stick around rather than quit in frustration. I just started a rebuild in div 2. It is very frustrating trying to recruit the way it is setup now....and I knew what to expect. How will a new player react?

Very interesting suggestion, realist. It seems to give the teams with fewer wins a leg up on the more successful teams, though. Maybe that's the opposite side of the coin but it still has an unfairness to it. Maybe distributing the sims more evenly, top to bottom, but still with a degree of preference for the winning teams, would be fairer all around and good for game play.

I have always thought a better method would be to place the recruiting power on the success of the coach, not the school. IRL if a top tier coach leaves a championship school and is replaced by a lesser quality coach is the school going to attract the top level recruit or are they going to follow the elite coach to the new school? If I win a NC at Ohio State and then decide to move to Nevada, my reputation or "prestige" should follow me and not necessarily stay with a new non-NC level coach at Ohio State. That would go a long way in balancing out some of the recruiting discrepancies discussed before and continue to reward success.

Posted by CoachSpud on 10/25/2025 2:38:00 PM (view original):

Posted by realist9900 on 10/24/2025 10:47:00 AM (view original):
This has always been a pet peeve of mine. The current vision setup is backwards. Especially for new players.

Currently, a new coach taking on a rebuild sees fewer players AND the players he does see have 3 sims on them. Pretty much impossible to fill your class. You don't have enough money to battle sims for all your recruits. Compared to an established coach with a winning record. He sees better players, and not only that they are Undecideds. Pay for one scout visit and that players is yours.

Logically, it should be opposite. The weaker players that the new coach sees aren't very good. In real life, those players wouldn't be highly sought after. They should be undecided. Now the better players that the established coach sees? They would be much more desired. Wouldn't it make sense that they would have other teams interested? So yea, an established coach sees better players, but he has to actually fight for them.

Football wise, this seems more realistic. Just as importantly, gamewise, it gives new players an easier time starting out. Maybe they stick around rather than quit in frustration. I just started a rebuild in div 2. It is very frustrating trying to recruit the way it is setup now....and I knew what to expect. How will a new player react?

Very interesting suggestion, realist. It seems to give the teams with fewer wins a leg up on the more successful teams, though. Maybe that's the opposite side of the coin but it still has an unfairness to it. Maybe distributing the sims more evenly, top to bottom, but still with a degree of preference for the winning teams, would be fairer all around and good for game play.

I likely didn't explain it better. The better teams with higher vision would also see those undecided players. They could try and recruit them if they want. The lesser teams would not have a leg up.

Posted by waregl72 on 10/24/2025 9:33:00 AM (view original):

Posted by tribewriter on 10/23/2025 12:25:00 PM (view original):

Posted by clayolson1 on 10/22/2025 11:35:00 PM (view original):
Is "vision" a factor in the lower divisions?

It is a huge factor. The more games you win, the better your vision becomes. The better your vision becomes, the better quality recruits, and more "undecided" recruits you can "see."

Recent real-life example: The second or third year I was at McMurry (TX) in Dobie D3, I compared my recruits to those of Cal Lutheran, the traditional power in my conference. I realized that I could only "see" two of the 14 guys he signed. I had no chance to recruit players of the same caliber, at least where initial attributes were concerned. A few seasons and quite a few wins later, I could see and sign much better players and McMurry eventually won its first national championship in any world.

I knew the better recruits part of vision but did not know undecided was part of that unless those higher-level recruits tend to be undecided.

I actually have some data to support this.

I went back and looked at a post I had made when I started the rebuild, expressing my frustration as the lack of "undecided" recruits in my vision. I am pasting those numbers below, along with a comparison of "undecideds" in my current, high-vision D3 team.

Side note: This season, for the first time, I am seeing recruits considering D2 teams in my D3 search. I guess that is also part of having higher vision.

McMurry Season 175, Vision Score 48

• Quarterbacks—1 of the top 100 undecided
• Offensive line—13 of the top 150 undecided, 2 in the top 68
• Defensive line—18 of the top 150 undecided, 1 in the top 59
• Defensive back—12 of the top 150 undecided, 2 in the top 97

Hobart Season 189, Vision Score 160

• Quarterbacks—29 of the top 100 undecided
• Offensive line—52 of the top 150 undecided, 30 in the top 68
• Defensive line—43 of the top 150 undecided, 22 in the top 59
• Defensive back—38 of the top 150 undecided, 29 in the top 97