I like the 7 Stick put up, but my locks would be Moreno, Almadova and Vazquez (3000 hits has to be in). I also really like Jensen.

Yea after looking at first year candidates I think the three I’m definitely voting for are Moreno, Almadova and Jensen and then I’d be happy voting for any two of the others Stick mentioned.

{EDIT: HERE ARE THE SEVEN PLAYERS THAT STICK MENTIONED RANKED BY BILL JAMES' HOF MONITOR SCORE} -

1. AJ Moreno, 384 points --> LOCK, no explanation needed
2. Steve Lowe, 182.5 points --> I'll vote for him
3. JJ Jensen, 158 points --> LOCK, #4 all time in Saves
4. Vic Almadova, 140 points --> LOCK, deserves to be in and was 1 vote short last year and may be running out of chances.
5. Emil Vazquez, 123.5 points --> Should also be a lock but we max out at three so I'll be giving him a vote this year and if he doesn't get in he should be a S73 Lock.
6. David Oropesa, 110 points
7. Willie Espinosa, 109 points

Ok, we have an interesting HOF class for consideration yet again! Moreno, obvs. No need to waste words on it (Though I will write a glowing paean to him on the WC). We argued for Almadova last year, and I think that's fine to do as a lock again.

Where it gets compelling, again, is the third basemen. Last year we had a lot of discussion on both Fernandez and Oropesa, both of whom I strongly support, and now we add Vazquez into the mix. I don't think their candidacies can exist independently of one another; they all bring different things to the table (And IMO, should probably ALL be in, it's just a question of how/when)

Let's run through them all.
OFFENSE:
Fernandez was the best pound-for-pound hitter; his .867 career OPS and seven seasons above .900 speaks to his offensive ceiling, which was much higher than the other two guys. Oropesa had some standout seasons despite playing most of his career in the tough hitting environs of Seattle, some 40-homer years, but a sub-.800 OPS (.798) Vazquez had a lower power ceiling than the other two (100 fewer HR), but hit for nice average (.288 for Vazquez, .272 for Oropesa, .274 for Fernandez, though Fernadez had a really impressive walk rate that raises his OBP to .359, comfortably above the other two), and was just above .800 career OPS at .802.


DEFENSE:
Man, these guys were great. Just elite defensive 3b's, all of them. But HOW elite? Vazquez was amazing - 216+ plays at 3rd and a few more at 2nd. He was basically a (lousy) SS playing other spots because his bat was good enough. That gives you a tremendous defender who made a huge impact with his glove. Oropesa wasn't far off that standard - 187 plus plays at 3rd, 20 at 2nd. Fernandez was a level below those two, but he was still great: 92 plus plays at 3rd, 21 at 2nd. Vazquez and Fernandez both had .979 career fielding %'s at 3rd. Oropesa a touch behind at .976. So, all great, but Vazquez really gets a boost here.

BASERUNNING:
Fernandez was the best runner, with 492 overall, a bunch of 40+ seasons, and an average in the high 30s. Vazquez and Oropesa were more of high-20s/low 30s guys, without the high peak.

LONGEVITY:
Now here's where a lot of that Vazquez edge comes into play, and what hurts Fernandez. Vazquez played a LONG time - 18 full seasons, which for an HBD position player is really, really long. He had 10,500 ABs! That doesn't happen often. That's how he got to those 3000 hits, and how he ended up with HOF-level-respectable power and steal numbers. But that matters! I dislike arguments against "Compiler" guys, because as long as you were really good across your career, those numbers are a really positive thing. You were impacting your team in an extra way for longer. Oropesa's 9850 AB's (2nd on the list of 20 position player nominees) are also quite impressive, while Fernandez's 8000 AB's (6th of 20) are nothing to sneeze at, but still well behind the other two. The years very much help to define and explain who these guys were.

EXTRAS:
Oropesa and Fernandez were important cogs in World Series winners - Fernandez won 4 as the de facto captain and franchise stalwart of the Galaxy, and Oropesa, his great rival, won 3 for Seattle - and then Johnny Damon'd it and won a title with the Galaxy. Clearly great on-field leaders with strong narratives. Vazquez toiled in Burlington obscurity for a while and then was an important part of some San Juan teams that just couldn't get over the Seattle/Vegas NL hump. Not his fault.

Vazquez and Fernandez were 5-time All Stars, Oropesa was a 3-timer. Reality is all three guys were competing with one another for those 3rd base spots! (And also playing a lot of 2nd base which hurt their various candidacies.) Vazquez and Oropesa won 3 gold gloves, Fernandez won 1. Fernandez and Vazquez had one silver slugger each, Oropesa 2. Nothing really stands out beyond what we already know. Fernandez was a rare one-club player, both majors and minors, which I personally love, but all three were really associated with specific franchises for a long time, which is cool and fun.

CONCLUSION:
Going through this exercise, to me Vazquez (defense/longevity) and Fernandez (offense/speed) are the more deserving candidates, with Oropesa just behind. But like, these guys are all HOF'ers. They're great. We shouldn't make any of them locks, but we should present their candidacy as a whole, tell people they're deserving, and then hope that they all get in. It'll take a few years, but all three belong. Maybe we try to put them in as a slate next season, which might be a little lighter.

OTHER GUYS:
Jensen does nothing for me - a 3.22 ERA as a closer just isn't that impressive. If you want to put a reliever in, vote for Brett Frye, who put up a 2.68 ERA and a 1.14 WHIP in 500 more innings than Jensen. He was used differently but was 100% a super high-leverage arm protecting leads in the 7th-9th innings, just for guys like me and Mike1184 who don't always run with a set closer.

Steve Lowe is a perfectly good 1B/DH bat who got a Colorado bump and is a very good player, but to me, not a ton else to say there.

Interested to hear other perspectives!

Moreno, Almadova and Vazquez. Lock 'em.

I respect Pimp's take that because all three 3Bs are so similar, and so clearly HOFers, we should just present their candidacies as a whole and not lock any. But that would just lead to it taking longer for any of the three to get in. I think prioritizing one over the others gets Vazquez in this year and clears spots for the others next year.

I can get behind that. Happy to do Moreno/Almadova/Vazquez and give at least something of an explainer about the futures of Oropesa/Fernandez.

I’m on board with that. Definitely think all of the 3Bs SHOULD be in so however we manage it to achieve that end goal is fine by me

Pimp, I loved your world chat post, but it was a bit excessive. Will you kindly be concise with our final offering?

I mean, the locks were in the second frickin sentence, but sure, Next time ill write three names and be done with it, certainly less effort for me and i dont need the headache of explaining if it’s not desired. Whatever you say, fake world boss.

Just wanted to jumpstart the S73 conversation here, and I'm going to do so by looking at the players we were discussing last year plus the guys who have already been mentioned in World Chat this year. Point totals are Bill James' HOF Monitor Score:

1. AJ Moreno, 384 points --> Elected last year : )
2. Steve Lowe, 182.5 points --> Elected last year : )
3. Magglio Garza, 178 points --> #2 all-time in Saves
4. JJ Jensen, 158 points --> #4 all time in Saves
5. Vic Almadova, 140 points --> deserves to be in and was 1 vote short in S71 and may be running out of chances.
6. Emil Vazquez, 123.5 points --> Elected last year : )
7. David Oropesa, 110 points --> Last year we talked about making him a lock this year
8. Willie Espinosa, 109 points ---> Last year we talked about making him a lock this year
9. Shane Ashby, 102 points --> Mentioned on World Chat this year...in a binary world he should be in, but are there too many ahead of him this year?
10. Kelly Spiezio, 101 points --> Mentioned on World Chat this year...in a binary world he should be in, but are there too many ahead of him this year?

Last year, we locked Almadova but didn't get him in. I don't particularly care about the man, but fine either way. He did do big numbers in a hard place to do it: Seattle. We mentioned Oropesa and Fernandez as sure HOFers that would get their moment as locks. I would prefer to lock them, though that might not play well with the crowd; maybe only locking one of them this year is better. Romero is a slam dunk. Six MVPs.

I'm out on Ashby, who was only great when he his home park was one of the game's most pitcher-friendly ballparks, Burlington. Same with Garza. Jensen played his whole career in pitcher-friendly St. Louis. Boudreau, the only guy on this ballot with a Cy Young, was only special when he was in pitcher-friendly Seattle.

My vote, to get us going: Lock Romero, Almadova and Fernandez. Recommend Oropesa.

I kinda like Shayne Ashby as a potential lock. He and Romero. Thoughts?

I'll do the math on Romero just to be formal, but 6 MVPs is a no-brainer HOFer...and I think we could/would lose some credibility with the crowd if we didn't lock the two 3B's since we announced we were going to do that last year. I am also Team Almadova, and the two closers are both top five in saves all-time so they have legit arguments to be locks as well. Like I said above, I like Ashby but I don't see him going in before any of the others I've just mentioned.

Therefore, I'd suggest: Officially Lock Oropesa, Fernandez, Almadova to gather support for Almadova. Suggest Romero because he'll get enough support on his own and Garza (since he's higher on the save list.) Save Jensen for next year and then put him on "lock" status in S74, potentially along with Ashby.

Commish got on me last season for writing too long so I'll keep this brief.

Romero is an obvious HOF'er. Almadova and Fernandez are the best holdover candidates and I'd support them. Garza is the better pitcher than Jensen by a significant margin - from innings load, to ERA, whip, park factor (As a guy who uses STL more than any other park I know how much it helped jensen over his whole career). I generally think closers have to be monsters to be HOF'ers but I get that the rest of the voting population is more lenient. I have no problem with Garza as a HOF'er, but I don't think Jensen gets over that line.

I think people are chafing at the lock system, and to some extent it's a vestige of a time when our HOF was too small because we didn't have a process in place for getting people in. At this point, I'd simply recommend four players - Romero, Almadova, Fernandez, Garza - and be done with it.

I am good with those 4. I will vote Jensen also.