nope dead ball pitchers FU%$ up everything

Just an FYI.
If you are going to use the WIS database for LAST SEASONs of players starting in 2025 and then regress to 2024 and so on, there are some players that show up in searches when using the LAST SEASON criteria that played after that season. For instance, Aaron Judge, Bobby Witt and a boat load of other players show up as a player in their LAST season in 2024. This happens as far back as 2019 that I have seen, maybe farther. Some work will be required to get a correct pool of those players.

Posted by bheid408 on 9/27/2026 2:16:00 PM (view original):
Just an FYI.
If you are going to use the WIS database for LAST SEASONs of players starting in 2025 and then regress to 2024 and so on, there are some players that show up in searches when using the LAST SEASON criteria that played after that season. For instance, Aaron Judge, Bobby Witt and a boat load of other players show up as a player in their LAST season in 2024. This happens as far back as 2019 that I have seen, maybe farther. Some work will be required to get a correct pool of those players.

Good to know. I think for player tracking I am going to use a "taken" list rather than an "availables" list. Takes a little more research from other owners, but I have found it also helps prevent players from being taken that are already on rosters. I may list out the top rookies/retirees based on WAR each season, but will use the taken list as a reference for everything else

Posted by jeff4noles on 9/27/2026 1:52:00 PM (view original):
nope dead ball pitchers FU%$ up everything

That is kind of the point of the league. It's a "polar opposites" format where the eras are directly reversed. High HR eras mixed with low HR eras. HIgh contact/average eras mixed with pitcher dominant eras, etc.

I would likely either do some sort of lottery system for the draft order each season, do a wins floor, or make the draft order completely random.

The other idea I had was do order of the standings for round 1, then reverse order for the subsequent rounds. Any team who makes the playoffs picks at the bottom of each round, but it rewards competitive non-playoff teams. In a dual season progressive, there is still plenty of talent where a 2nd round pick is impactful, so those bad teams picking early in the 2nd round still get impact players.

Draft order will definitely be a topic voted on should we get enough owners to commit to this concept.

Posted by giannivanaco on 9/27/2026 8:25:00 PM (view original):
I would likely either do some sort of lottery system for the draft order each season, do a wins floor, or make the draft order completely random.

The other idea I had was do order of the standings for round 1, then reverse order for the subsequent rounds. Any team who makes the playoffs picks at the bottom of each round, but it rewards competitive non-playoff teams. In a dual season progressive, there is still plenty of talent where a 2nd round pick is impactful, so those bad teams picking early in the 2nd round still get impact players.

Draft order will definitely be a topic voted on should we get enough owners to commit to this concept.

One option for random draft picks is to do balanced random which is just random but once you get a first round pick you can’t get another one until everyone else gets one. Slightly more fair than pure random. The NFL did something like that in the 1940s and early 1950s.

Posted by DiamondJones on 9/26/2026 5:34:00 PM (view original):
I might be interested if we do some sort of anti-tanking like Total Salary/Wins.

J4M formula league does this. Understand to do this right, you have to look at the salary at each game to get an average for the season. Otherwise you open up the possibility of someone having a really high salary, then trading away excess salary after they are way out front to improve draft pick. Or the opposite, a team that starts low and adds a lot of salary throughout.... either way is legal but there are some smart folks here and someone will find a way..

As others stated, doing some sort of small lottery Top 3 or 4 seems to solve the problems. Win floors also help. Have also seen leagues where order is set at Game 120 and roster moves are frozen and a couple where your record the last 42 games (best to worst) determines it. Finally, because divisions are not equal, have seen leagues where it is 100% random but excludes anyone who made playoffs. Net-Net, tanking is tough to absolutely prove but playing guys at C/SS/2B who never played there or starting fatigued pitchers, etc., resting healthy players/stashing them in AAA is easy to see. I would definitely not allow any AAA in the league and force folks to draft a full team.

Finally, all play to have a fair chance there should be no exceptions for inexperienced owners. There are plenty of owners willing to help if asked and these forums contain EXTENSIVE knowledge and debate. If learning is needed then play Open leagues first, read forums or take lumps until you get it. We all had to do that unless someone just pastes their cookie team in. I find most of those who shortcut end up getting frustrated and leaving the league or WIS altogether. Both are bad outcomes.

I’d Join

Posted by The_Creeper on 9/29/2026 9:34:00 AM (view original):

Posted by DiamondJones on 9/26/2026 5:34:00 PM (view original):
I might be interested if we do some sort of anti-tanking like Total Salary/Wins.

J4M formula league does this. Understand to do this right, you have to look at the salary at each game to get an average for the season. Otherwise you open up the possibility of someone having a really high salary, then trading away excess salary after they are way out front to improve draft pick. Or the opposite, a team that starts low and adds a lot of salary throughout.... either way is legal but there are some smart folks here and someone will find a way..

As others stated, doing some sort of small lottery Top 3 or 4 seems to solve the problems. Win floors also help. Have also seen leagues where order is set at Game 120 and roster moves are frozen and a couple where your record the last 42 games (best to worst) determines it. Finally, because divisions are not equal, have seen leagues where it is 100% random but excludes anyone who made playoffs. Net-Net, tanking is tough to absolutely prove but playing guys at C/SS/2B who never played there or starting fatigued pitchers, etc., resting healthy players/stashing them in AAA is easy to see. I would definitely not allow any AAA in the league and force folks to draft a full team.

Finally, all play to have a fair chance there should be no exceptions for inexperienced owners. There are plenty of owners willing to help if asked and these forums contain EXTENSIVE knowledge and debate. If learning is needed then play Open leagues first, read forums or take lumps until you get it. We all had to do that unless someone just pastes their cookie team in. I find most of those who shortcut end up getting frustrated and leaving the league or WIS altogether. Both are bad outcomes.

The best way to solve tanking I have seen is go directly in order of the standings for any non-playoff team. 2nd place teams pick 1-4, then 3rd place teams 4-10, then last place teams 10-16, then all the playoff teams. Then go reverse order of the standings (worst to first) for the remaining rounds.

The other way would just be a simple random. The NWPEE (which I am apart of) does this, and it does prevent tanking. It offers a full incentive to be competitive year in and year out, and in a dual progressive, there is plenty of talent to disperse. I think in order to do this, we would need a salary/contract cap, but that could easily be implemented.

Once again, once we secure enough owners, this will be put up for majority vote.

25 man roster?

I’ll probably play.

I would suggest starting with 2026 not 2025.

I have no preference for AL or NL

Sounds good TJ. I am open to starting with 2026 depending on when we can get this league up and running

Posted by giannivanaco on 9/29/2026 5:13:00 PM (view original):

Posted by The_Creeper on 9/29/2026 9:34:00 AM (view original):

Posted by DiamondJones on 9/26/2026 5:34:00 PM (view original):
I might be interested if we do some sort of anti-tanking like Total Salary/Wins.

J4M formula league does this. Understand to do this right, you have to look at the salary at each game to get an average for the season. Otherwise you open up the possibility of someone having a really high salary, then trading away excess salary after they are way out front to improve draft pick. Or the opposite, a team that starts low and adds a lot of salary throughout.... either way is legal but there are some smart folks here and someone will find a way..

As others stated, doing some sort of small lottery Top 3 or 4 seems to solve the problems. Win floors also help. Have also seen leagues where order is set at Game 120 and roster moves are frozen and a couple where your record the last 42 games (best to worst) determines it. Finally, because divisions are not equal, have seen leagues where it is 100% random but excludes anyone who made playoffs. Net-Net, tanking is tough to absolutely prove but playing guys at C/SS/2B who never played there or starting fatigued pitchers, etc., resting healthy players/stashing them in AAA is easy to see. I would definitely not allow any AAA in the league and force folks to draft a full team.

Finally, all play to have a fair chance there should be no exceptions for inexperienced owners. There are plenty of owners willing to help if asked and these forums contain EXTENSIVE knowledge and debate. If learning is needed then play Open leagues first, read forums or take lumps until you get it. We all had to do that unless someone just pastes their cookie team in. I find most of those who shortcut end up getting frustrated and leaving the league or WIS altogether. Both are bad outcomes.

The best way to solve tanking I have seen is go directly in order of the standings for any non-playoff team. 2nd place teams pick 1-4, then 3rd place teams 4-10, then last place teams 10-16, then all the playoff teams. Then go reverse order of the standings (worst to first) for the remaining rounds.

The other way would just be a simple random. The NWPEE (which I am apart of) does this, and it does prevent tanking. It offers a full incentive to be competitive year in and year out, and in a dual progressive, there is plenty of talent to disperse. I think in order to do this, we would need a salary/contract cap, but that could easily be implemented.

Once again, once we secure enough owners, this will be put up for majority vote.

The problem is you want to solve tanking while also not keeping last place teams perpetually bad. It’s not just one of the two it’s both. If you ever get to a bad team and also always get 9th-12th pick you just never get out of that hole. Having teams that are both bad and can’t realistically improve is only going to create owner turnover. All random is even preferable to this because at least when you’re bad you have a shot of first overall.

Posted by StatFiend on 10/2/2026 4:31:00 AM (view original):

Posted by giannivanaco on 9/29/2026 5:13:00 PM (view original):

Posted by The_Creeper on 9/29/2026 9:34:00 AM (view original):

Posted by DiamondJones on 9/26/2026 5:34:00 PM (view original):
I might be interested if we do some sort of anti-tanking like Total Salary/Wins.

J4M formula league does this. Understand to do this right, you have to look at the salary at each game to get an average for the season. Otherwise you open up the possibility of someone having a really high salary, then trading away excess salary after they are way out front to improve draft pick. Or the opposite, a team that starts low and adds a lot of salary throughout.... either way is legal but there are some smart folks here and someone will find a way..

As others stated, doing some sort of small lottery Top 3 or 4 seems to solve the problems. Win floors also help. Have also seen leagues where order is set at Game 120 and roster moves are frozen and a couple where your record the last 42 games (best to worst) determines it. Finally, because divisions are not equal, have seen leagues where it is 100% random but excludes anyone who made playoffs. Net-Net, tanking is tough to absolutely prove but playing guys at C/SS/2B who never played there or starting fatigued pitchers, etc., resting healthy players/stashing them in AAA is easy to see. I would definitely not allow any AAA in the league and force folks to draft a full team.

Finally, all play to have a fair chance there should be no exceptions for inexperienced owners. There are plenty of owners willing to help if asked and these forums contain EXTENSIVE knowledge and debate. If learning is needed then play Open leagues first, read forums or take lumps until you get it. We all had to do that unless someone just pastes their cookie team in. I find most of those who shortcut end up getting frustrated and leaving the league or WIS altogether. Both are bad outcomes.

The best way to solve tanking I have seen is go directly in order of the standings for any non-playoff team. 2nd place teams pick 1-4, then 3rd place teams 4-10, then last place teams 10-16, then all the playoff teams. Then go reverse order of the standings (worst to first) for the remaining rounds.

The other way would just be a simple random. The NWPEE (which I am apart of) does this, and it does prevent tanking. It offers a full incentive to be competitive year in and year out, and in a dual progressive, there is plenty of talent to disperse. I think in order to do this, we would need a salary/contract cap, but that could easily be implemented.

Once again, once we secure enough owners, this will be put up for majority vote.

The problem is you want to solve tanking while also not keeping last place teams perpetually bad. It’s not just one of the two it’s both. If you ever get to a bad team and also always get 9th-12th pick you just never get out of that hole. Having teams that are both bad and can’t realistically improve is only going to create owner turnover. All random is even preferable to this because at least when you’re bad you have a shot of first overall.

Solving tanking is important to address but keeping last place teams from being perpetually bad should not be a goal. Bad owners or those making bad decisions should not be rewarded. Building a good team is not 100% just how early you pick in 1st round (but some years is really matters) Good owners do not need charity, they have a plan, make good picks in later rounds, target certain seasons, make smart trades, etc. Bad ones fail.

I use this idea. “The best way to solve tanking I have seen is go directly in order of the standings for any non-playoff team. 2nd place teams pick 1-4, then 3rd place teams 4-10, then last place teams 10-16, then all the playoff teams. Then go reverse order of the standings (worst to first) for the remaining rounds.”

we also add in bonus picks at the end of the first round for any team with a losing record 4 or more consecutive years.

I really like it, and I think the league does as well. We don’t have a lot of turnover.

The positives as I see it are:

1. It makes every game important, the wins , even when you’re out of it, matter because you are constantly trying to win to improve your draft position.

2. If you’re bad, it’s not a death sentence. In a double season progressive, with 16 teams, the worst team is drafting 12 and 17. There’s PLENTY of talent there.

3. If youre really bad, it would be something 12, 17 and 18.

I like the idea of every game mattering a lot. It keeps me engaged.

Count me in, I'll go with Houston in the AL.