In my opinion the second 'best pitching value' is much more debatable. When you field your first playoff team this will become much more evident to you. Try to harness that passion and bring it to the draft center. Have fun and Goodluck.

That's why I stopped wiping my ***....

Quite an interesting comparison...

While the next best value player is already there, it does take a little time to for him to become the overused annoyance that Joss is now. If they were to change the pricing scale more regularly, it would seem to help some.

Posted by basketcall on 2/24/2012 8:45:00 PM (view original):
A couple of you are missing the point. The next best value is already there, and always will be.
There is not already another flat tire, and hopefully when you wipe there's not still more there... 

I have actually calculated the value* of every pitcher in the sim and can tell you Joss is pretty uniquly valuable.

* value = expected salary based on performance (or expected performance) less actual salary.
 
Joss is only ~600th in value/IP at ~$5200.  (He costs ~$37,400/ IP.  He should cost  ~$42,500).  However, among pitchers with over 150 IP and an expected era under 3.00, he is pretty unique and the best value.  The next best value pitcher is '14 Leonard who is worth ~$3,200/IP more than his salary.  Only two others: '17 Cicotte and '19 Alexander have half the value of '08 Joss on a $/IP basis.

In terms of absolute value (expected salary less actual salary), '08 Joss rules them all with ~$1.8M in value.  '09 Morgan is close at about $1.7M in value, but he isn't a number one starter like Joss. '07 Joss is the only other pitcher to top $1.5M.  When you look at pitchers that you'd expect to have less than a 3.00 era, Joss looks even better. '08 Walsh, '18 Teney and '08 Mathewson are the only others to top $1M at $1.1, $1.1 and $1.0 respectively.  Only five others even have half Joss' total value: '17 Cicotte ($980K), '10 Walsh ($950K), '15 Alexander ($940K), '08 Steele ($920K), '19 Nehf ($900K).  '14 Hendrix ($780) just misses the cut.

You are right, people would move down the line-- I think '08 Matheson would become the next major cookie pitcher-- but the next best pitcher wouldn't be nearly the value Joss is.  The next best value probably wouldn't influence the sim like Joss.

    

zubinsum has done his homework!!! Great information!!!  Thanks for taking the time to share it...

Dead on Zubinsum. I absolutely agree that 08 Joss is by far the best number one starter pitching value in the sim and that if they raised his price accordingly, the next two in line would probably be 17 Cicotte and 08 Mathewson, because with either of those two, although a tad below Joss' level of consistency, you'll definitely get a lot of bang for your buck.  While 07 Joss is also a good bargain, he's far from a number one starter, and you won't see many teams in the playoffs with him as such.

Zubinsum, I'm curious who are best vales on % basis of stated salary. Isn't 09 Morgan so much less incost that he is technically he greater % value.

Value > 10%
IP  > 100
Exp ERA < 4.5

PlayerYear	IP162	Value ($)	Value ($/ip)	Value(%)
1918 Fred Toney	112.0	$1,115,341	$9,958	21%
1908 Elmer Steele	125.0	$921,726	$7,374	20%
1918 Hank Thormahlen	149.0	$809,752	$5,435	19%
1914 Pug Cavet	161.0	$816,291	$5,070	18%
1906 Mike Lynch	126.0	$631,318	$5,010	18%
1918 Rasty Wright	148.0	$835,192	$5,643	18%
1909 Cy Morgan	243.0	$1,519,115	$6,252	18%
1917 Herb Pennock	108.0	$502,498	$4,653	18%
1917 Eddie Plank	138.0	$695,088	$5,037	17%
1909 Cy Morgan	311.0	$1,725,226	$5,547	17%
1909 Cy Morgan	311.0	$1,725,226	$5,547	17%
1904 Clark Griffith	108.0	$472,686	$4,377	17%
1919 Art Nehf	119.0	$796,335	$6,692	17%
1917 George Cunningham	148.0	$673,702	$4,552	17%
1903 Red Donahue	159.0	$692,032	$4,352	17%
1916 Mellie Wolfgang	134.0	$632,455	$4,720	17%
1918 Eric Erickson	122.0	$539,766	$4,424	17%
1908 Charlie Chech	175.0	$853,734	$4,878	17%
1914 Happy Finneran	185.0	$843,530	$4,560	17%
1907 Cy Morgan	125.0	$744,578	$5,957	17%
1909 Deacon Phillippe	141.0	$632,682	$4,487	16%
1916 Jim Shaw	113.0	$480,281	$4,250	16%
1927 Bobby Burke	106.0	$435,154	$4,105	16%
1910 Addie Joss	115.0	$488,264	$4,246	16%
1917 George Dumont	217.0	$921,189	$4,245	16%
1919 Oscar Tuero	183.0	$740,362	$4,046	16%
1908 Ed Summers	319.0	$1,361,081	$4,267	16%
1909 Jack Warhop	262.0	$1,061,515	$4,052	16%
1914 Ernie Shore	148.0	$846,654	$5,721	15%
1933 Hi Bell	113.0	$479,810	$4,246	15%
1905 Sam Leever	244.0	$1,129,540	$4,629	15%
1910 Ed Willett	236.0	$1,065,114	$4,513	15%
1904 Otto Hess	163.0	$673,284	$4,131	15%
1908 Nick Altrock	145.0	$591,074	$4,076	15%
1910 Frank Smith	137.0	$686,632	$5,012	15%
1914 Rankin Johnson	127.0	$654,808	$5,156	15%
1907 Chick Fraser	148.0	$613,483	$4,145	15%
1907 Walter Johnson	119.0	$489,590	$4,114	15%
1914 Rankin Johnson	231.0	$997,815	$4,320	15%
1913 Joe Engel	174.0	$723,177	$4,156	15%
1909 Ed Killian	185.0	$753,492	$4,073	15%
1906 Ed Reulbach	233.0	$1,244,106	$5,340	14%
1906 Lew Richie	218.0	$798,739	$3,664	14%
1916 Slim Sallee	120.0	$548,173	$4,568	14%
1909 Ed Summers	301.0	$1,297,266	$4,310	14%
1908 Gus Dorner	228.0	$852,542	$3,739	14%
1910 Deacon Phillippe	129.0	$569,844	$4,417	14%
1909 Rube Kroh	128.0	$536,232	$4,189	14%
1904 Tom Walker	230.0	$910,522	$3,959	14%
1916 Nick Cullop	176.0	$690,813	$3,925	14%
1917 Chief Bender	121.0	$573,521	$4,740	14%
1907 Tully Sparks	293.0	$1,310,906	$4,474	14%
1908 Biff Schlitzer	139.0	$497,566	$3,580	14%
1908 Bill Burns	176.0	$768,991	$4,369	14%
1902 Joe McGinnity	183.0	$856,057	$4,678	14%
1909 Frank Arellanes	248.0	$1,040,600	$4,196	14%
1910 Willie Mitchell	196.0	$720,703	$3,677	14%
1907 Sam Leever	228.0	$929,183	$4,075	14%
1907 Jake Weimer	222.0	$814,736	$3,670	14%
1908 Jim Pastorius	225.0	$827,992	$3,680	14%
1888 Kid Madden	200.0	$788,681	$3,943	14%
1913 Bob Shawkey	118.0	$465,759	$3,947	14%
1906 Bill Duggleby	297.0	$1,172,508	$3,948	13%
1907 Lew Moren	282.0	$1,000,116	$3,547	13%
1918 Bob Steele	150.0	$560,124	$3,734	13%
1914 Rube Foster	225.0	$1,017,423	$4,522	13%
1918 Bob Steele	150.0	$553,521	$3,690	13%
1906 Jack Pfiester	268.0	$1,313,170	$4,900	13%
1906 Roy Patterson	153.0	$634,524	$4,147	13%
1907 Vic Willis	308.0	$1,275,431	$4,141	13%
1916 Carl Weilman	291.0	$1,057,629	$3,634	13%
1914 Doc Watson	240.0	$979,687	$4,082	13%
1919 Dolf Luque	123.0	$421,942	$3,430	13%
1914 Doc Watson	240.0	$971,665	$4,049	13%
1903 Roy Patterson	347.0	$1,168,313	$3,367	13%
1913 Charley Hall	114.0	$384,521	$3,373	13%
1918 Slim Sallee	173.0	$678,006	$3,919	13%
1914 Nick Cullop	318.0	$1,241,045	$3,903	13%
1905 Clark Griffith	111.0	$453,047	$4,082	13%
1890 Mike Morrison	124.0	$488,004	$3,936	13%
1907 Hooks Wiltse	202.0	$679,742	$3,365	13%
1918 Red Causey	207.0	$683,585	$3,302	13%
1907 Addie Joss	361.0	$1,439,411	$3,987	12%
1903 Ed Siever	297.0	$974,732	$3,282	12%
1904 Ed Walsh	117.0	$407,851	$3,486	12%
1910 Eddie Cicotte	265.0	$846,131	$3,193	12%
1904 Roy Patterson	174.0	$626,338	$3,600	12%
1908 Bill Dinneen	178.0	$574,690	$3,229	12%
1914 Gene Krapp	272.0	$1,067,029	$3,923	12%
1906 Lefty Leifield	271.0	$929,438	$3,430	12%
1914 Rankin Johnson	231.0	$729,255	$3,157	12%
1914 Doc Watson	181.0	$684,447	$3,781	12%
1908 Addie Joss	342.0	$1,769,213	$5,173	12%
1903 Chief Bender	324.0	$1,097,934	$3,389	12%
1907 Jimmy Dygert	293.0	$1,069,464	$3,650	12%
1909 Joe Wood	173.0	$705,627	$4,079	12%
1903 Barney Wolfe	180.0	$610,784	$3,393	12%
1905 Carl Lundgren	180.0	$651,173	$3,618	12%
1915 Dave Black	130.0	$414,845	$3,191	12%
1908 Art Fromme	123.0	$386,929	$3,146	12%
1914 Joe Wood	120.0	$418,742	$3,490	12%
1905 Dummy Taylor	226.0	$696,711	$3,083	12%
1910 Eddie Plank	271.0	$911,756	$3,364	12%
1909 Harry Krause	226.0	$934,917	$4,137	12%
1914 Nick Cullop	321.0	$1,132,824	$3,529	12%
1914 Jack Warhop	228.0	$722,646	$3,169	12%
1916 Bob Shawkey	292.0	$1,165,033	$3,990	12%
1941 Dutch Dietz	106.0	$321,141	$3,030	12%
1906 Jack Taylor	168.0	$549,144	$3,269	12%
1919 Carl Mays	173.0	$550,117	$3,180	12%
1933 Waite Hoyt	124.0	$385,624	$3,110	12%
1908 Kaiser Wilhelm	350.0	$1,253,546	$3,582	12%
1913 Boardwalk Brown	250.0	$811,137	$3,245	12%
1918 Elmer Jacobs	162.0	$571,450	$3,527	12%
1920 Dave Keefe	138.0	$433,399	$3,141	12%
1909 Fred Beebe	307.0	$935,976	$3,049	11%
1905 Irv Young	398.0	$1,321,423	$3,320	11%
1908 Jimmy Dygert	253.0	$739,359	$2,922	11%
1914 Ray Fisher	220.0	$678,013	$3,082	11%
1907 Jack Pfiester	208.0	$845,757	$4,066	11%
1907 Dummy Taylor	182.0	$595,645	$3,273	11%
1906 Fred Glade	290.0	$943,331	$3,253	11%
1913 Walt Leverenz	215.0	$648,040	$3,014	11%
1903 Tully Sparks	298.0	$858,098	$2,880	11%
1918 Allen Sothoron	278.0	$1,052,581	$3,786	11%
1920 Babe Adams	277.0	$1,017,992	$3,675	11%
1916 Rube Benton	255.0	$740,080	$2,902	11%
1906 Tully Sparks	336.0	$1,279,713	$3,809	11%
1908 Johnny Lush	264.0	$774,550	$2,934	11%
1917 Dutch Leonard	314.0	$959,228	$3,055	11%
1907 Nap Rucker	302.0	$867,506	$2,873	11%
1914 Nick Cullop	321.0	$929,138	$2,895	11%
1908 Fred Beebe	184.0	$618,848	$3,363	11%
1912 Byron Houck	193.0	$583,773	$3,025	11%
1915 Babe Adams	258.0	$749,403	$2,905	11%
1909 Barney Pelty	216.0	$688,523	$3,188	11%
1909 George McQuillan	263.0	$833,713	$3,170	11%
1917 Rube Benton	227.0	$683,552	$3,011	11%
1909 Nap Rucker	328.0	$946,634	$2,886	11%
1915 Joe Benz	251.0	$786,338	$3,133	11%
1916 Art Nehf	129.0	$395,333	$3,065	11%
1920 Elmer Ponder	207.0	$644,886	$3,115	11%
1915 Ray Fisher	264.0	$726,233	$2,751	11%
1908 Vic Willis	321.0	$1,136,104	$3,539	11%
1908 Howie Camnitz	249.0	$767,530	$3,082	11%
1914 George LeClaire	112.0	$320,325	$2,860	11%
1906 Bob Rhoads	334.0	$957,571	$2,867	11%
1915 Ernie Shore	265.0	$843,737	$3,184	11%
1935 Jesse Haines	122.0	$351,481	$2,881	10%
1914 Erv Lange	200.0	$711,291	$3,556	10%
1910 George McQuillan	162.0	$587,378	$3,626	10%
1904 Red Ames	121.0	$353,209	$2,919	10%
1926 Pete Alexander	157.0	$478,063	$3,045	10%
1917 Pol Perritt	227.0	$674,567	$2,972	10%
1903 Jack Sutthoff	262.0	$732,502	$2,796	10%
1906 Dummy Taylor	228.0	$646,886	$2,837	10%
1919 Frank Miller	236.0	$722,025	$3,059	10%
1908 Sam Leever	203.0	$551,916	$2,719	10%
1909 Earl Moore	318.0	$956,521	$3,008	10%
1906 Jack Taylor	158.0	$499,473	$3,161	10%
1905 Mordecai Brown	264.0	$839,682	$3,181	10%
1916 Mike Prendergast	161.0	$495,407	$3,077	10%
1932 Eppa Rixey	118.0	$357,526	$3,030	10%
1901 Brickyard Kennedy	102.0	$276,201	$2,708	10%
1916 Ferdie Schupp	150.0	$689,338	$4,596	10%
1905 Togie Pittinger	360.0	$970,203	$2,695	10%
1914 Russ Ford	266.0	$969,900	$3,646	10%
1916 Joe Bush	304.0	$871,838	$2,868	10%
1905 Bob Wicker	189.0	$595,271	$3,150	10%
1901 Happy Townsend	167.0	$443,586	$2,656	10%
1903 Eddie Plank	404.0	$1,127,868	$2,792	10%
1905 Barney Wolfe	196.0	$551,198	$2,812	10%
1918 Harry Harper	309.0	$992,333	$3,211	10%
1909 Ed Willett	312.0	$917,378	$2,940	10%
1911 Lew Richie	267.0	$711,533	$2,665	10%
1913 Ed Reulbach	158.0	$449,185	$2,843	10%
1913 Ed Reulbach	158.0	$449,181	$2,843	10%
1914 Jim Shaw	271.0	$709,982	$2,620	10%
1886 Jim Handiboe	135.0	$503,978	$3,733	10%
1933 Leon Chagnon	106.0	$285,229	$2,691	10%
1919 Carl Weilman	173.0	$470,767	$2,721	10%
1906 Jack Taylor	323.0	$939,221	$2,908	10%
1909 Vic Willis	309.0	$868,232	$2,810	10%
1906 Jack Taylor	323.0	$937,806	$2,903	10%
1903 Willie Sudhoff	343.0	$1,011,128	$2,948	10%
1905 Tully Sparks	277.0	$796,866	$2,877	10%
1907 Jake Thielman	177.0	$461,763	$2,609	10%
1909 Lefty Leifield	215.0	$597,988	$2,781	10%
1919 Slim Sallee	264.0	$736,459	$2,790	10%
1916 Fred Toney	318.0	$881,372	$2,772	10%
1919 Waite Hoyt	125.0	$326,583	$2,613	10%
1918 Stan Coveleski	397.0	$1,288,657	$3,246	10%
1917 Stan Coveleski	314.0	$1,110,429	$3,536	10%
1915 Phil Douglas	125.0	$375,833	$3,007	10%
1907 Mordecai Brown	249.0	$817,697	$3,284	10%
1910 Orval Overall	153.0	$463,834	$3,032	10%
1913 Ed Reulbach	120.0	$396,630	$3,305	10%
1912 Buck O'Brien	294.0	$803,137	$2,732	10%
1916 Jim Bagby Sr.	287.0	$748,142	$2,607	10%
1919 Leon Cadore	291.0	$799,075	$2,746	10%
1916 Red Faber	216.0	$635,736	$2,943	10%
1907 Ed Karger	333.0	$1,058,905	$3,180	10%
1945 Joe Haynes	114.0	$285,740	$2,506	10%

ip < 101
exp era < 3
value > 10%

PlayerYear	IP162	Value ($)	Value ($/ip)	Value(%)
2006 Wes Littleton	37.0	$331,419	$8,957	23%
1915 Tim McCabe	44.0	$423,458	$9,624	22%
1907 Tom L. Hughes	30.0	$248,571	$8,286	22%
1983 Jeff Heathcock	28.0	$284,020	$10,144	21%
1903 Martin Glendon	33.0	$270,383	$8,193	21%
1924 Babe Adams	42.0	$388,446	$9,249	21%
1942 Frank Biscan	29.0	$278,229	$9,594	20%
1988 Bob Milacki	26.0	$310,976	$11,961	20%
1915 George Dumont	43.0	$405,092	$9,421	20%
1952 Mike Fornieles	28.0	$256,513	$9,161	19%
1950 George Spencer	27.0	$245,203	$9,082	19%
1918 Jake Northrop	53.0	$527,637	$9,955	19%
2006 Chris Sampson	34.0	$241,679	$7,108	19%
1918 Pete Alexander	33.0	$264,255	$8,008	19%
1915 Ed Walsh	29.0	$208,590	$7,193	19%
1919 Ray Caldwell	62.0	$427,302	$6,892	18%
1987 Jack McDowell	28.0	$227,752	$8,134	16%
1989 Eric Plunk	29.0	$185,700	$6,403	16%
1960 Marshall Bridges	27.0	$203,815	$7,549	16%
1993 Paul Kilgus	29.0	$196,562	$6,778	16%
1918 Roy Mitchell	46.0	$298,419	$6,487	16%
1992 Dennis Rasmussen	38.0	$278,537	$7,330	16%
1907 George McQuillan	46.0	$354,324	$7,703	16%
1911 Orlie Weaver	46.0	$269,532	$5,859	15%
1924 Pedro Dibut	39.0	$231,863	$5,945	15%
1915 Cy Falkenberg	52.0	$309,442	$5,951	15%
2009 Claudio Vargas	30.3	$175,941	$5,800	15%
1915 Phil Douglas	27.0	$161,635	$5,986	15%
1942 Dutch Leonard	38.0	$208,678	$5,492	15%
1989 Jim Corsi	39.0	$210,343	$5,393	14%
1980 Marty Bystrom	36.0	$198,018	$5,501	14%
1982 Dave Rozema	28.0	$158,677	$5,667	14%
1923 Les Howe	32.0	$184,217	$5,757	14%
1998 Graeme Lloyd	38.0	$220,919	$5,814	14%
1922 Johnny Cooney	27.0	$141,660	$5,247	13%
1898 Jack Taylor	45.0	$227,216	$5,049	13%
1931 Bill Harris	33.0	$190,251	$5,765	13%
1907 Nick Maddox	57.0	$333,716	$5,855	13%
2001 Jeremy Fikac	27.0	$171,442	$6,350	13%
1983 Larry Andersen	27.0	$132,769	$4,917	13%
1963 Bobby Tiefenauer	30.0	$158,129	$5,271	13%
1985 Bob Woodward	27.0	$163,693	$6,063	13%
1943 Jack Hallett	51.0	$253,170	$4,964	13%
1993 Mark Dewey	27.0	$167,762	$6,213	13%
1918 Oscar Tuero	56.0	$270,876	$4,837	13%
2006 Mike MacDougal	29.0	$144,647	$4,988	13%
2006 Mike MacDougal	29.0	$144,647	$4,988	13%
1978 Gene Garber	39.0	$188,336	$4,829	13%
2009 Claudio Vargas	41.7	$196,266	$4,710	13%
2009 Claudio Vargas	41.7	$196,266	$4,710	13%
1898 Sam Leever	37.0	$182,579	$4,935	12%
1918 Carmen Hill	57.0	$310,784	$5,452	12%
2011 Eduardo Sanchez	30.0	$146,773	$4,892	12%
1972 Doug Rau	35.0	$182,450	$5,213	12%
2010 Ramon Ramirez	27.0	$148,930	$5,516	12%
1943 Bill Voiselle	33.0	$154,671	$4,687	12%
1915 Chet Hoff	46.0	$202,925	$4,411	11%
1916 George Dumont	57.0	$250,956	$4,403	11%
1915 Mellie Wolfgang	57.0	$242,404	$4,253	11%
1886 Phenomenal Smith	33.0	$157,288	$4,766	11%
1981 Kevin Saucier	73.0	$350,995	$4,808	11%
1973 Don McMahon	31.0	$138,879	$4,480	11%
2005 Juan Padilla	37.0	$177,425	$4,795	11%
1981 Andy Rincon	57.0	$244,245	$4,285	11%
1996 Rick Helling	28.0	$153,902	$5,497	11%
1943 Johnny Niggeling	54.0	$291,910	$5,406	11%
1981 Jeff Reardon	63.0	$313,516	$4,976	10%
1976 Fred Holdsworth	40.0	$183,340	$4,584	10%
2006 Dennys Reyes	51.0	$194,205	$3,808	10%
2009 Neftali Feliz	31.3	$187,879	$5,996	10%
1946 Red Ruffing	65.0	$255,681	$3,934	10%
2003 Jose Acevedo	27.0	$101,341	$3,753	10%
1964 Bill Henry	52.0	$222,973	$4,288	10%
2000 Ray King	29.0	$118,463	$4,085	10%

1. No.  Defense is not taken into account.  A neutral stadium is assumed as is an average opponent offense.
2. Yes.