I had a promising freshman quit my D3 PBA team last night because I had promised him a start and he was unhappy that I didn't meet that promise. Anyway, from reading through previous forum posts my understanding was that 22 of 26 regular season starts would always fulfill that promise AND that post season DID NOT count towards the promise. I met the promise on minutes for sure. Here is the ticket that I sent today on the subject -

6/16/2017 2:37 AM	snewell12
Hi, I'd like some insight into why I lost a freshman due to a broken promise. I promised Alvin Hauck some minutes and to start. He started in 22 of 26 regular season games. From previously scouring forums, I thought only regular season counted toward this with post season not making any difference and that 22 starts would cover the promise. Thanks.
6/16/2017 1:10 PM	Customer Support
Hi Scott, Post-season games are included and your player was unhappy that he was no longer starting. When making a promise it's expected to be lived up to each game

Ouch!!! But nice implemented by the game Wiz. It needs to be like that.

If post-season games are now included then that's been a very recent change.

Just out of curiosity, can you share which games he started and exactly when you got the email complaints from the player? I'm wondering, of the first 26 games you played, if most of those nonstarts were towards the end of the regular season.

I was able to find the player. The players name is Alvin Houck. He started a total of 24 of the total 35 games.He did not start the last 7 games of the conference tournament and national tournament. I've been noticing a trend, where if you don't make a promise for 3 consecutive games, even if it's above 80%, they will complain.

Overall, I don't have an issue with this, with the exception that anytime there is a programming change, it should be WIS' responsibility to inform the coaches. It doesn't have to be specific, but we should be notified. Also, for the purpose of giving newbie coaches that read the forums the correct information.

Why didn't they tell us they changed that????

Im never sitting guys in the regular season now.

Admin recently told me that "every player is different" in regards to their reactions. I'm guessing that rather than a recent programming change Houk must have been one of those outlier players who is a stickler for promises.

This occurrence is interesting to note, because like many here I've been pulling that same stunt.

I wonder if this is as likely to happen as when another player leaves when you cut someone else.

I wonder if the same applies to minutes? I kept a 10m promise during the season but he's been relegated to 3rd string in CT/NT.

I dont think that one should draw the conclusion from prior discussions that 22 of 26 ALWAYS works. My experience and my read of the forums is that that level generally works - indeed almost always. Some guys will settle for a bit less (I am sure) and some guys will be unhappy at that level (I cant say whether they would leave, but I had a guy complain at 21 or 22 starts, so I gave him another one or two in CT. I think the better view is that 21 or 22 starts almost always works.

I have no info on whether postseason now counts - but that report is interesting.

Ok, so I posted this because they said that post season counted and I knew that nobody else thought that was the case. They have retracted that now and it is to the 'every player reacts differently'. Here is my follow up with them where the confirm post season actually doesn't count -

Scott, Looking into this further, it does not appear that the post-season games had any effect. The issue is that he complained on the 20th and then had another follow up complaint on the 24th. Any time a player complains twice there is a decent chance that they may leave. Your remaining starts were too little too late.
6/16/2017 2:16 PM	snewell12
Ok, so two things - The second complaint didn't make sense. By then he was back in the lineup and had started 11 of 15 games and complained that he had started only 3 games?? Alvin Houck 05/24/2017 5:02 AM 3 games started?!? Coach, you sold me on this school and you as a coach, not to mention the promise of starting here in my first year. Now you're going to need to sell me on staying here, since I'm not getting what you promised. Alvin Houck Next, are you now saying post season games are not included as part of a promise? I think we all deserve to know so I had already posted your previous reply. Thanks!
6/16/2017 3:41 PM	Customer Support
Post-season games are not factored in. He sent the note on the 20th. Then he did not start the next game but did after that and unfortunately, he was still upset. Each player will react differently.

I promised a player a start and 25 minutes (Crum Providence John Jackson). He's started every game, but due to foul trouble he's only averaging 22.5 minutes. He complained when after around 6 games he only averaged 18 minutes. When his minutes averaged jumped to only 22, he sent me a thank you card.

I had 2 guys over the past 2 seasons average 90% of the promised minutes, including foul outs. In both instances, they didn't play their promised minutes for 3 consecutive games and both complained the next game, despite still being over 90%.

Posted by npb7768 on 6/16/2017 3:48:00 PM (view original):
I promised a player a start and 25 minutes (Crum Providence John Jackson). He's started every game, but due to foul trouble he's only averaging 22.5 minutes. He complained when after around 6 games he only averaged 18 minutes. When his minutes averaged jumped to only 22, he sent me a thank you card.

I think once you get that "thank you" and his WE goes back up, you're safe from losing that player or at least until he complains again.

After reading the CS ticket, it makes sense.

I think if you have a player that is complaining with a WE drop going into the conference tournament, then you will need to play him his guaranteed minutes.

However, after game 26 if he hasn't complained, then I'm guessing he's probably safe.

And it kind of makes sense, if you're going with the 80% rule.

If he started 11 of the first 15 games, that would be 73.3%.

And then started 3 of the next 4 games, which is 75%, which is when his 2nd complaint was.

And to be completely fair, I probably would've done the same thing, after starting every game after the second complaint, I most likely would've sat him back in the bench for the conference tournament and beyond.