After countless tickets, and a lot of "hacking" we were able to bring the Pitcher version of Shohei Ohtani to SimLeague Baseball. As many had suggested, rather than have a singular powerhouse player and change game mechanics to allow players to be used in the field/at bat and on the mound, we have created a second draftable "version" of Ohtani that is purely a pitcher and have been testing in our QA environment.

In the argument of "fairness" when using this player, a couple things have caught our attention. We would like community feedback before pressing the button and sending him into production. In the pitcher "versions" of Ohtani, salary is strictly based of his Pitching abilities. However, he also holds the same batting capabilities of the DH/OF versions. So for non-DH leagues, the scales are a tipped in terms of fairness.

So we have two options:
1.) Adjust the pitcher "versions" salary to Pitcher base + 1/5 of batter version (or something like this), but potentially penalize teams that are in DH leagues by having them overpay for player.
2.) Adjust batting stats to be inline with an average pitcher. Keeps things more fair but isn't as "realistic" as some will argue.
3.) Leave as is

The 4th option (which some will suggest) unfortunately is not an option in having 3 versions of player. (batter, pitcher w/batting skills, pitcher w/avg batting)

Thank you everyone for your patience and understanding and looking forward to reading your feedback.

Regards,
-Chris
WIS

The pricing formula takes hitting ability into account for pitchers, good hitting pitchers are always more expensive than light hitting pitchers with the exact same pitching stats, so can't you just use his normal price?

In DH leagues this is already something smart owners avoid, not drafting a pitcher whose monster bat you won't be able to use.

So I would say to just price him like you would any other good hitting pitcher using the standard formula.

Posted by 06gsp on 10/13/2022 3:02:00 PM (view original):
The pricing formula takes hitting ability into account for pitchers, good hitting pitchers are always more expensive than light hitting pitchers with the exact same pitching stats, so can't you just use his normal price?

In DH leagues this is already something smart owners avoid, not drafting a pitcher whose monster bat you won't be able to use.

So I would say to just price him like you would any other good hitting pitcher using the standard formula.

Echoing this: 3.) Leave as is

I'm thinking about progressive and them leagues which are the only two kinds I play. If someone drafted Ohtani, he could receive both DH and P versions of Ohtani. The problem would be that coach would be able to use both versions of Ohtani in a single game, which is unrealistic and a major advantage. Or the progressive league would have to make a rule that the P and DH versions are two separate players which would be weird. And that also wouldn't work for replay leagues as that team would be able to roster two Ohtanis. Could also screw up a lot of other theme leagues where choosing the 2022 Angels would end up being OP.

So my 2 cents is to scrap it. As much as I'd like to see a realistic Ohtani out there, if he can't be a single player that can bat and pitch, it will cause more problems.

Posted by toysboys on 10/13/2022 3:42:00 PM (view original):
I'm thinking about progressive and them leagues which are the only two kinds I play. If someone drafted Ohtani, he could receive both DH and P versions of Ohtani. The problem would be that coach would be able to use both versions of Ohtani in a single game, which is unrealistic and a major advantage. Or the progressive league would have to make a rule that the P and DH versions are two separate players which would be weird. And that also wouldn't work for replay leagues as that team would be able to roster two Ohtanis. Could also screw up a lot of other theme leagues where choosing the 2022 Angels would end up being OP.

So my 2 cents is to scrap it. As much as I'd like to see a realistic Ohtani out there, if he can't be a single player that can bat and pitch, it will cause more problems.

Can he not be setup similar to the 1886 Abner Powell? (with the hacking) One player ID with each a hitter and pitcher version that way he can't be rostered twice by the same team? That would seem to alleviate toysboys valid concerns above.

Would you consider adding other players that have pitched and played in the field in the same season? Ohtani isn't the only one to have done this...

Posted by just4me on 10/13/2022 3:24:00 PM (view original):

Posted by 06gsp on 10/13/2022 3:02:00 PM (view original):
The pricing formula takes hitting ability into account for pitchers, good hitting pitchers are always more expensive than light hitting pitchers with the exact same pitching stats, so can't you just use his normal price?

In DH leagues this is already something smart owners avoid, not drafting a pitcher whose monster bat you won't be able to use.

So I would say to just price him like you would any other good hitting pitcher using the standard formula.

Echoing this: 3.) Leave as is

Ditto

Posted by toysboys on 10/13/2022 3:42:00 PM (view original):
I'm thinking about progressive and them leagues which are the only two kinds I play. If someone drafted Ohtani, he could receive both DH and P versions of Ohtani. The problem would be that coach would be able to use both versions of Ohtani in a single game, which is unrealistic and a major advantage. Or the progressive league would have to make a rule that the P and DH versions are two separate players which would be weird. And that also wouldn't work for replay leagues as that team would be able to roster two Ohtanis. Could also screw up a lot of other theme leagues where choosing the 2022 Angels would end up being OP.

So my 2 cents is to scrap it. As much as I'd like to see a realistic Ohtani out there, if he can't be a single player that can bat and pitch, it will cause more problems.

I don't think it gives you that big an advantage, if it's a DH league the pitching Ohtani can't hit, and in a non-DH league the hitting Ohtani would have to play in the field where he will be a complete disaster. yes you'd be able to use the hitting version as a pinch hitter on days the pitching Ohtani pitched, but I really don't think that's enough of an edge to deny people the opportunity to use him

A team that does have both Ohtani versions on it (if that is possible) is still paying for both the hitting and pitching stats. There’s not an inherent advantage there, in fact, probably a slight disadvantage as they’re likely paying for the hitting twice with it baked into the pitching price.

For a progressive, or replay league, I see the unfairness with them basically getting Ohtani’s bat in the lineup twice in every game he pitches, but I’m personally fine with that. He’s a unique talent and provides unique value, the sim currently can’t capture that and this is the closest we’ll get to it in this iteration, and that slight additional value (~90 PA/yr) seems a worthwhile compromise to get that value into the game.

He's a novelty. You are trying something new with the subtraction of AAA in Open League play, so give this a whirl as well. See how it plays out. It's not a game changer...

Leave as is.

I echo J4M.

Leave as is, agree with the above arguments.

Leave as is.

Posted by DoctorKz on 10/13/2022 8:52:00 PM (view original):
He's a novelty. You are trying something new with the subtraction of AAA in Open League play, so give this a whirl as well. See how it plays out. It's not a game changer...

Agreed. Leave as is and get him into the game. And thank you for doing it.