Why I am not a Barry Bonds believer Topic

Greatest ever?

After 4,578 AB (or fewer in a couple of cases here):

Bonds .286 261 HR
Ruth .348 356
Mays .318 278
Williams .350 293
Mantle .309 284
Joe D. .334 244
Manny .315 314
ARod .309 313
Gehrig .343 267
Pujols .334 319
3/22/2026 11:08 AM
In case you're wondering, this takes Bonds from 1986-1994, so his first nine seasons, through age 29.

The following five seasons, after that point, his numbers were:
1995 .294 33 HR
1996 .308 42
1997 .291 40
1998 .303 37
1999 .262 34

At which point he had reached age 34 and had played 14 seasons.

Obviously a great career. But no one would reasonably call him the greatest ever. He certainly belongs in the group above, but his numbers are lower than all the others listed. And to show that those first nine seasons are not anomalies, his following five seasons, as I have listed here, invoved only two seasons in which he hit .300 and barely over .300, and at age 34 had had a .262 34 homer season. Great season for Joe Pepitone. No one would mistake Joe Pepitone for, well, Don Mattingly or Tino Martinez, let alone Ted Williams or Babe Ruth.

So, when in 2000 he goes ballistic and hits .306 with 49 homers, his most ever, its clearly something that is not just him. And the following season's 73, without which no one would claim for him the title of GOAT, is absurd. Great player. Up there with the others listed and other all-time greats, Not nearly the best of them. Without the steroids, likely would not have finished in most people's top ten. Top 15 probably.

3/22/2026 3:57 PM
He's in the conversation.

Through his first 13 seasons (that's the 4578 AB), his OPS+ is 168. Ruth, Willams, Mantle and Foxx are above him. Musial is right there with him..

If you look at WAR, only Ruth is ahead of him and he's got real similar #'s as Mays, Wagner, Cobb.

He also won 3 MVP's. The list of guys with three MVP's and 150+ OPS in their 1st 13 years are: Bonds, Musial, Pujols, and Trout.

I always put Ruth #1. After that its a bunch of coin flips.
3/23/2026 7:30 AM
Why I am not a Barry Bonds believer Topic

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