Wednesday, December 07, 2005
4:00 PM - 4:30 PM EST
The LIVE portion of this chat will begin on
Wednesday, December 07, 2005 at 4:00 PM EST.
The purpose of this chat is to answer questions regarding the upcoming recruiting changes:
1. We will be limiting your maximum recruiting budget to the equivalent of 6 open scholarships.
2. The assistant coach will only sign players for a coach who has 3 or more open scholarships and has not made any recruiting efforts.
3. The assistant coach will 'prepare' the team for any teams in which the assistant coach signed at least 1 recruit and the head coach made no recruiting efforts.
4. We will allow the carryover of 25% of unused recruiting money IF the coach has filled all of his/her scholarships and has money remaining.
5. Carrying more than one walkon will begin to impact the rate at which practice impacts player improvement.
What time will these changes be implemented? ie. Will these be in place when Rupp starts recruiting? (az4lifenotr - Hall of Famer - 8:28 PM)
The implementation has been added to the first post in the 'recruiting changes' thread.
So if we have 5 open scholarships and are only able to recruit 2 players the assistant coach will not fill up the roster? Also when the assistant does fill up the spots are they filled with walk-ons or decent players we wouldn't mind having on our team for 4 seasons? (Jesub - All-Star - 8:29 PM)
That's correct - if you do any recruiting whatsoever, the assistant coach will not sign any players for your team. The players he does sign will be recruits (not generated walkons) so while they may not be blue-chippers, they won't be scrubs either.
How will walk-ons impact the rate at which player improvement occurs in practice? Positive or negative? To what extent? Would offering the walk-ons scholarships cancel this out? (stevea3 - All-Star - 8:31 PM)
It will be negative - slowing the rate of improvement for both IQ and individual skills. The more walkons on the squad, the slower your scholarship players will improve.
timing is a key issue for me on item 4 - I assume that this will apply only to recruiting periods that end in the future - money in the budget from prior periods wont disappear will it? take the example of Wooden recruiting which just ended tyhe other day - am I right that the change described in item 4 will apply only AFTER the next recruiting cycle? if I saved $ I wont lose more right now will I? (metsmax - Hall of Famer - 10:06 PM)
That is correct - if you've already rolled over money, you will not lose that for the next recruiting period.
Are you now telling us that if we don't carry a minimum of 11 scholarship players that our players will see diminished returns from practice time? So now we're going to be forced to either carry at least one pissed off scholarship player that never plays and starts to lose his skills or we carry 10 scholarships players and the whole team suffers? What happened to "Here are the changes we're considering, so you can give us your thoughts, ideas and feedback"? This wasn't mentioned anywhere! (blazor - Hall of Famer - 10:11 PM)
This was a point of emphasis from every coach I spoke with - there is a reason the NCAA allows for 13 scholarship athletes and there is also a reason why real coaches nearly always carry the maximum amount of scholarship athletes. They actually recommended at minimum of 12 scholarship players to maximize practices but since 12 is our limit, we reduced it by one.
In Rupp - Season 11 I was laying the foundation for a solid recruiting class of 6 then I could not make it in during the signing period - no scholarships offered. How many would the A.C. sign? Would they be the guys I was chasing? (bagocious - Veteran - 10:15 PM)
Actually none - the change we're referring to would only allow the assistant coach to sign players for you if you've made no prior recruiting efforts that period. It's really only targeting making abandoned teams more competitive.
Set recruiting budgets to equal 5 open schollies. If you sign 5 recruits you would not incure an improvement hit with regards to practice impact. No carry over funds. Conf. tourney funds would remain.The soon to be old recruiting system rewarded teams with more open schollies. This proposal would reward coaches with fewer open schollies which is fair. Its simple, balanced and fair to all. (freelee - Hall of Famer - 11:04 AM)
But unrealistic - ADs will sit down with coaches to determine their budget prior to the season. Money is in such short supply for most athletic departments that they wouldn't/couldn't give a coach money for 5 scholarships when he doesn't have any scholarships to fill (for example).
Can you define what is "recruiting effort" as far as recruiting criteria & triggering AC signings? If I make 1 call to 1 recruit, would that count as recruiting effort and thus toggle the AC coach signing off for that period? (l_eustachy - Hall of Famer - 11:05 AM)
Yes. If you spend a single dollar, that would count as a recruiting effort.
I'm ok with the changes and grateful for the clarified phase-in A conceptual question - I have always thought of the "budget" as not just money but a measure of effort and I have always thought of the carryover as in effect a team directing effort toward a future class. This happens in real life and if you think of the budget as effort the reduced carryover makes less sense. I think the analysis offered for this change treats it as just money (mamxet - Hall of Famer - 11:07 AM)
Thanks for the feedback. I'm not sure I follow the analogy about it not being money but being 'effort'. I guess I could see if you were able to recruit HS juniors, but that is not the case, you're only recruiting one class at a time and the AD is setting a budget for only that class.
We will be limiting your maximum recruiting budget to the equivalent of 6 open scholarships (this does not count post-season money but does include any monies carried over - see below). does this mean if I only need 2 players in season 13 I will still get cash for 6? (twmiles - All-Star - 11:08 AM)
No, you would only get cash for 2. If you had 12 open scholarships (or any number greater than or equal to 6 open scholarships), you would get cash for 6.
If I put a walkon on scholarship, does he still induce slow learning in the rest of my team? Or does that penalty stop when the walkon becomes a scholarship player? (gary32 - All-Star - 11:18 AM)
Assuming you have 2 or more walkons and you offered 1 of them a scholarship, that penalty would stop, but I'm not sure it's worth being saddled with that player for 4 seasons or taking the rep hit to rescind his scholarship later down the road. I have always taken a walkon which allowed me to be more aggressive with other recruits - now I won't be able to go "all out" because I want to make sure that I end up with no more than 1 walkon and actually I probably wouldn't take any recruits if I was going to have possible carryover monies.
Doesn't the asst. signing players change benefit those who make no effort compared to those who try but fail to sign recruits since the asst. will fill the roster up to 10? (Rails - Hall of Famer - 11:24 AM)
The assistant coach can sign a maximum of 5 players in any single class. This is designed to address abandoned teams but not to the extent they will be National Champions, they will be mediocre recruits. If a coach recruits, but doesn't sign anyone, yes his walkons will probably not be as good as the asst. coach signees but neither is a formula for success. If you let your asst. coach always recruit for you, you'll never put together a great recruiting class and you'll most likely always have 2 walkons which will a.) mean you will never carry money forwards and b.) take a slight hit towards player improvement.
5. Practice impacts of carrying walkons: carrying more than one walkon will begin to impact the rate at which practice impacts player improvement. will you go a LOT more indepth on this one please? (twmiles - All-Star - 11:28 AM)
It's actually a quite simple premise which I didn't realize until after speaking with actual coaches - the better the talent you have at practice, the better your players can prepare for games and work on individual skills. If you extrapolate that out and think about a team with 5 scholarship players and 7 walkons, the 5 scholarship players would not be improve at nearly the rate they would be if they were going against better competition every day. This is one reason (injuries, transfers, grades, etc. are others) that real teams nearly always carry the maximum amount of scholarship players allowed.
The assistant coach will only sign players for a coach who has 3 or more open scholarships and has not made any recruiting efforts. 1. At what cycle / day durning the recruiting process, will the asst. coach start to sign these players so they appear on our recruiting page as signed? 2. For D1 what will be the min value of these players, 500 and up! Could you give a JUCO button to push or check if we wil be away? (twmiles - All-Star - 11:29 AM)
The assistant coach will only recruit/sign players at the conclusion of the recruiting period - they will not be battling other coaches for recruits.
Would it be possible to just give a walkon a scholarship to bring your total to 11 for the season? Could that be the way around this issue? Would that put your team in a position where they are not "breaking" new rule #5? Then he could get cut after the season is over and a loyalty hit (hopefully small) would be the punishment. Obviously this couldn't be a yearly solution for coaches, but maybe a one time thing if the rule isn't tweaked and stays as is. (uscalvin - Hall of Famer - 11:33 AM)
Many coaches are looking at the new changes through their existing strategy goggles which naturally can lead to an immediate negative response and ways to continue recruiting the way they've always recruited under the new rules. Again, I don't think that this method of 'gaming' the system is necessarily wise for the reasons stated earlier.
Does this mean that the assistant will only start looking for players AFTER the signing period begins? If so, most good players will be gone by then, and thus a team would be stuck with mediocre players (at best) UNDER SCHOLARSHIP. I personally see this as a bad thing... it will go a long way to creating perenially bad teams, instead of having a whole lot of walk-ons who will be gone the next year (with the possibility of getting new recruits the next season). Is this how it will be? (pointspecial - Pro - 11:35 AM)
Yes, that is correct. They will not get the best recruits, nor do we want them to, but we'd certainly want them to be more competitive than 12 walkons season after season. In addition, the assistant coach will also setup their practice plans and game settings. You have to remember, this is not designed to help a coach that abandons his team - it's designed to help the teams in his conference so they don't have one or two teams dragging down their post-season chances.
Item #2 of the upcoming changes states, "The assistant coach will only sign players for a coach who has 3 or more open scholarships and has not made any recruiting efforts." Am I correct in assuming that if a Coach who has 4 scholarships available, does actively recruit, but is unable to sign anyone, the 4 open scholarships will not be filled with 2 assistant signings, but instead with 4 walk-ons? (anux - Hall of Famer - 11:36 AM)
That is correct.
Why does rule 5 penalize all player development? For example, what in the world does having 9 walk-ons have to do with my player's ability to practice free throws, for instance? thanks, gomiami1972 (gomiami1972 - Hall of Famer - 11:37 AM)
Some areas will not be affected - free throw shooting is a great example, but most areas will for the reasons stated above.
Will we be given the ability to direct how our asst coaches recruit on our behalf? Let's say I have been building a Fastbreak/Press team built around Speed and Athleticism. For whatever reason I can not fill the required # of schollies and the asst does it for me. It would be DEVASTATING for my asst to recruit players with low rated SPD or ATH, i.e. completely outside the strategy/logic for which the program has been built around. (gomiami1972 - Hall of Famer - 11:38 AM)
No and in your example the assistant coach would not sign anyone. This will only be for teams in which the coach makes no recruiting efforts.
Thanks for your hard work regarding the changes and seeking feedback. Regarding change #5, wouldn't it make some sense to have this kick in at 10, not 11 since a team could still scrimmage and have one backup at each position? (Rails - Hall of Famer - 11:46 AM)
It will only be a minor hit at 10 scholarship players and it the penalty will increase significantly under 10.
If Assistant coaches are going to be asked to recruit for us, are they going to be looking for any particular ratings/skills? Similar offenses and defenses? If an Assistant coach is being asked to recruit for us, we should have the option of hiring an assistant coach that specializes in certain aspects, or looks for certain skills. Don't you think? This could also lead to hiring assistant coaches which are more adept at improving certain attributes. Discuss. (r0b0t - Hall of Famer - 11:47 AM)
Two different issues here - one is to address the abandoned teams issue and that's all this change is focused on. The other is actually having your assistant coach help you recruit and that may be added down the road but only after the ability to hire/fire your assistant coach is in place.
Will you implement a feature that allows a coach planning vacation or whatever to turn on AC control for a time? I think we all like this. Thanks again for the great work and the intelligent fixes. (lakevin - Hall of Famer - 11:49 AM)
Yes, see response above.
If you give a walkon a scholarship, will it satisfy the player improvement in practice requirement? If you recruit low rated recruits (i.e div 3 quality player in Div 2) will it have an affect on the effectiveness of player improvement in practice? (wolf44 - Hall of Famer - 11:51 AM)
Currently no - it's only looking at whether the player is on scholarship or not, not a player's actual skills.
abandoned teams - when the SIM recruits on behalf of an "abandoned" team, will it do so on the same basis that it recruits now for a SIM AI team - cost structure, behavior patterns in recruiting? (mamxet - Hall of Famer - 11:52 AM)
No, it will occur at the end of the recruiting period so it will be limited to a smaller subset of available recruits.
Could you please explain "Rule 5" and why you think this is needed? Are you trying to close a loophole of some sort or do you honestly think having a couple of walk-ons has a negative effect on practices. (aspencooper - Hall of Famer - 1:57 PM)
Most real teams rarely go 10 deep but most most real teams also carry the maximum of 13 scholarship athletes plus a couple of walkons. When asked why they carry 13 instead of 10 scholarship athletes, the answer was always the same - in addition to the unknowns (injuries, transfers, grades), it was crucial to have the best players available in practice to help their teams improve and prepare for upcoming games.
Coaches in the forum were overwhelmingly (over 60% according to my calculations) against changing the carryover recruiting money. What was the rationale for changing it? (kypride - Hall of Famer - 2:14 PM)
You have *almost* the same odds of seeing a unicorn as seeing a budget surplus for an athletic department. Also, and this not blaming anyone, but coaches in the forums are going to post what is most beneficial for their own particular situation and/or strategy.
Why not roll out the option for assistant coaches to set depth charts / practice for all coaches? I often can't make it to a computer in the 12 hour window between the end of recruiting and the first exhibition game - it would be nice to have the assistant set things as a default. (kcsundevil - Hall of Famer - 2:26 PM)
Good suggestion, we may add that as an option that a coach can check on/off (with the default being off) so if you know you're out of town, you can have the asst. coach setup your practice plans.
 - we've already made the change so newly signed recruits will be added to your roster with default practice times already set without any action required on your part [/edit]
Rule 2 and 5 do not jive. An abandoned team will have the asst fill all but 2 schollies (rule 2). All teams with more than 1 open schollie will suffer development penalties (rule 5). Is this not a double joepardy? The abandoned team will have not only randomized schollie players but also these players will have suffered through retarded development. ...not an attractive prospect for a new coach picking up the team later. (gomiami1972 - Hall of Famer - 2:29 PM)
Again, we're not trying to help abandoned teams win a title. This is for the other schools in that conference. Also, the school will still be much more attractive to a new coach that only has to fill a couple of scholarships instead of 12 with a budget for 6.
What has been reaction to the changes so far? I love them, and the little bit of the forum I read, the response seemed generally positive. (hermrats - Veteran - 2:30 PM)
Very positive - I think most coaches realize that all of these changes were announced with the sole focus of adding more realism, not to extinguish a certain recruiting strategy.
One of the recruiting changes is to have the assistant coach make some practice/strategic decisions for abandoned teams. Is there a reason why they couldn't pre-set the practice regimen for all freshmen? I know a couple seasons ago I left for vacation shortly before recruiting finished and my recruits regressed because they never had to show up for practice. (hermrats - Veteran - 2:31 PM)
This is something we'll be adding (default practice minutes) for new recruits regardless of whether the team is abandoned or not.
 - we've already made the change so newly signed recruits will be added to your roster with default practice times already set without any action required on your part [/edit]
what actual d1 coaches and athletic directors did you talk to? (vandydave - Hall of Famer - 4:07 PM)
I spoke with an ex-DI coach (17 years), current DI coach and current DII coach. I'd rather not mention specifics until I get their permission to do so.
The WhatIfAwards are happening. Are you disappointed nobody has nominated you for HD coach? (r0b0t - Hall of Famer - 4:08 PM)
All it takes is one 3-24 season at Wright State and my dreams were crushed.
Is there a chance that the last rule will be changed to a higher number of walkons to accomodate those who have a bad recruiting cycle? (more than 1 walk-on will affect development) (paland - Hall of Famer - 4:10 PM)
No, there are always players which can be signed with appropriate planning. If a coach goes 'all in' on a single recruit and comes up empty, that's the coach's fault for not considering the negative ramifications.
Have you ever thought of setting a tuition price at each school and then being able to offer a percentage for scholarships instead of full rides all the way around? For example, if a school's tuition was $30,000 a year, then you had 10 full rides or $300,000 in scholarships, you could offer anywhere between 10%-100% to recruits but must stay under budget. So if you offered a 10% scholarship to a weaker player, you could have some big money left for a top player. This could heat up the recruiting wars. (tizzle27 - Veteran - 4:13 PM)
No, we'd have to research that more.
What about the 8/5 scholarship rule in real college basketball? Ever thought of adding that? (tizzle27 - Veteran - 4:14 PM)
That was removed a few seasons back.
Can we see a change in the Playing Time expectations of players? ... in real life, if you promised a player PT, he would expect it beyond his freshmen year. (infinitebob - Hall of Famer - 4:16 PM)
Don't think you'd get much support here 'Bob'. Coaches make promises based on the upcoming season - based on the subsequent recruiting class those promises may or may not make sense. Of course, that's not to say a kid who was promised playing time his freshman year wouldn't be upset if he didn't get the same his sophomore year.
Will Sim AI schools still sign 12 recruits or will they be rolled back to 10 like an abandoned team? (Weena - Hall of Famer - 4:17 PM)
Sim recruiting will not change.
Why all the constant changes? I understand the concept of wanting to make the game better. But for the last 3 seasons the changes seem to be coming non-stop. And most of the time in the middle of the season. Why not give your customers a chance to get comfortable with your product and impliment changes gradually, so that we aren't always having to completely overhaul our strategies? (blazor - Hall of Famer - 4:20 PM)
If you check the release notes you'll see that the changes have not been as frequent as you may think. Of course when you have multiple teams (as you do - thanks!), it may seem that way. We haven't made any significant changes to recruiting in 12 months or more.
what happens if you inherit ( take a promotion)a team ,in which you have to recruit 7 or more players in a season? (easona - Hall of Famer - 4:21 PM)
You will still only have budget for 6. I'd suggest signing 4 freshman and 2 JUCOs.
If I have 6 open spots and then lose a player to the NBA draft or kick him off for discipline will I get an exemption? It seems like we will be punished when it is not our fault. (Weena - Hall of Famer - 4:24 PM)
I think both of those situations can, to some degree, be tied back to the coach. Recruiting a kid that leaves early for the NBA is done by the coach and the coach receives the benefit of getting him to the NBA. Recruiting good kids is also the responsibility of the coach. Get off the wallet and have Dr. Phil give the kid the once over.
How do ethics come into play with the latest series of recruiting changes? (r0b0t - Hall of Famer - 4:25 PM)
They really won't.
these new recruiting rules will absolutely kill the sim ai programs, making them completely non-competitive (tracyr - Hall of Famer - 4:27 PM)
I don't think so - I think that it will actually even the playing field a bit more as coaches won't be so eager to go so hard after just a few recruits with no real downside for ending up with multiple walkons if they don't succeed.
I've had difficulty redshirting freshmen, even with no promises made and when they are clearly outclassed by veteran players. (And forget RS those w/out a massive WE hit.) How about making redshirting easier, or giving us an option to tell recruits they will be RS-ed, as part of your effort to have us keep more scholarship players? (jpritchard - Hall of Famer - 4:29 PM)
I've had the opposite experience - most freshman don't have a problem being redshirted. I don't have the exact percentages in front of me, but I think the odds are very high that a freshman will redshirting without complaining - UNLESS you've made promises or the players ahead of him aren't that great.
Do you think a shortage of money in the recruiting budget will only encourage people to offer booster gifts? (r0b0t - Hall of Famer - 4:30 PM)
I don't know - that goes back to your ethics question....
Will there be an option if you know you won't be able to recruit (for example you go on vacation), that you can tell your assistant to fill a certain number of recruits? The teams not abandoned, but sometimes real life trumps our fantasy experience. (xlr8n - Hall of Famer - 4:31 PM)
Currently it would happen automatically if you don't make any recruiting efforts. In the future, you'll be able to have the assistant coach help recruit non-abandoned teams.
How can you say there's no real down side for ending up with multiple walkons? You just told us that our entire team will be negatively impacted and will improve more slowly with every walkon we have over one. Which one is it? (blazor - Hall of Famer - 4:32 PM)
I'm not sure what you're referring to, yes, there is a negative impact for taking multiple walkons (no carryover, practice, etc.)
With these new changes will you be adding more JUCO1's? THere were onlt 5 JUCO1's that were DI talent level this past season. Yet there were tons of JUCO2's. (AceCards - Hall of Famer - 4:32 PM)
We don't create JUCO players - only HS recruits. JUCOs are unsigned HS players.
If I have carryover money comming into a season where I have no open spots will it still be reduced to 25% the following season? (Weena - Hall of Famer - 4:33 PM)
wait, so assistants will NOT be signing recruits at SIM AI schools? - so if they get beat out of recruits, they'll have all walkons? - boy, that program will be fun to take over (tracyr - Hall of Famer - 4:33 PM)
No, they'll still sign players as they do today.
Why should every D1 School have the same amount of money per Scholarship? Have you considered having top tier programs like Duke getting more funds per Scholarship than say Wagner? (aspencooper - Hall of Famer - 4:35 PM)
We address that by making the value different - so a phone call from Duke would carry alot more weight with a recruit than a phone call from Wagner (no offense to Wagner).
If a coach has a less than stellar reputation, I donít see where his recruiting is affected all that much. What about when a coach breaks his promise? In RL, other kids may not commit as easily or a current player might inquire about transferring. Any plans to change the severity in which reputation plays as far as recruiting, job security (Even at DIII, a coach would lose his job if he pulls a Dominican) and promotion are concerned? (Rails - Hall of Famer - 4:36 PM)
It does impact his recruiting ability as well his job prospects. Of course it can be offset by things such as success (e.g. Huggins, Tarkanian)
Do you think you'll be the first DI coach to get fired? I mean, Wright State has to be regretting that decision. (r0b0t - Hall of Famer - 4:37 PM)
You want no part of the Raiders this season. We're ready for a breakout season!
Is the maximum recruiting budget a hard equivalent to the 6 open scholarships or is it 6 open scholarships plus any carryover and playoff money? (pottle - Hall of Famer - 4:37 PM)
6 open scholarships + national tournament monies. So if you had 6 open scholarships next season and were carrying over $2,000, the $2,000 would be lost as you're already at your maximum.
Recruiting in Nebraska, Oregon, etc.. and only having a couple kids within 100 miles is going to strain the new budgets. Will there be more recruits in each region? (nkularary - Hall of Famer - 4:39 PM)
Not planned. Being remote is a two way street - when there are great recruits in your backyard, you also have no competition. Long distance recruiting is still possible when done correctly.
don't these changes significantly disadvantage a coach who took over a team that already had 10 sophmores on it? (combalt - Hall of Famer - 4:41 PM)
They'll have in essence two recruiting periods to prepare of the maximum budget. I'm sure it was the same for some schools when the NCAA introduced the 5/8 rule.
What will be the reputation penalty (if any) for cutting AC-signed players, if a coach takes over a previously abandoned team? Will it be the same as for regular signings by a previous coach, or will it be somewhat less (due to the probable low quality of the AC signings)? (antonsirius - Hall of Famer - 4:42 PM)
It would be the same as cutting any player which you did not recruit - minor.
Whether you need 1 scholarship or 5 scholarships to fill, both teams would get money to fill 6 scholarships? Meaning the school with 1 scholarship to fill could spend a excese of money on a single player. (shins - All-Star - 4:44 PM)
No, you would get money based on the number of open scholarships you have up to 6. Anything over 6 gets the money for 6.
Thanks for taking the time to post your questions, comments and suggestions.