Thursday, December 07, 2006
4:00 PM - 5:00 PM EST
The LIVE portion of this chat will begin on
Thursday, December 07, 2006 at 4:00 PM EST.
There are 3 changes that will begin with recruiting on 12/11/2006. Those include new pricing for scouting trips, home visits and campus visits, an ability to inform recruits of your plans to redshirt them and booster gifts will no longer be available for DIII schools.
With the redshirt notification, will various recruits respond differently to it -- some having no problem, some a mild impact, some a more significant one, etc.? (daalter - Hall of Famer - 9:34 AM)
Yes, exactly. By informing a kid of your intent to redshirt him, it may not hurt or your recruiting efforts at all or it may really turn the kid off to your program. Either way, if you've informed him of your intent and he does sign with you, he will not get upset when you actually apply the redshirt.
what is behind these updates? I was not aware in any forum of discontent with costs of home visits or campus visits. Better yet, "What" does this fix? (twmiles - All-Star - 9:41 AM)
Recruiting today is very localized - localized to the point that a school that is 200 miles away from a recruit has a VERY hard time outrecruiting a school that is 20 miles away from that same recruit. These new recruiting costs will help to address that and are much more realistic than today's system. The other changes are pretty self-explanatory.
Will not revealing a red shirt intention be equivalent to the current situation? That is, if a coach makes no mention of a red shirt is the algorithm to determine if the player accepts it is the same? (raydecampo - Veteran - 9:46 AM)
Not quite - since you now have the ability to inform the recruit in advance of signing, not doing so would make it less likely (as compared to today) that the player will be fine with it.
Being a coach of a team in Montana it just seems like you have just handicapped me, where a three hour trip doesn't get me out of the state. Will there be any breaks for schools like in Hawaii, Alaska. (sprfalcons - All-Star - 9:50 AM)
I think the new recruiting cost structure will make it easier, not harder, for remote schools to recruit. Obviously you'll be able to judge better for yourself once it the changes are in effect for your world.
What happens if I promise a kid minutes during recruiting then I decide I want to redshirt him? (arusso - Pro - 9:53 AM)
You can't have both - if you decide you want to redshirt him after promising him minutes or starts, that would wipe out any promises you have made to the kid (and vice versa - if you promise him minutes or starts after informing him of a redshirt, that would wipe out the fact that you informed him that he would be redshirted).
Let's say you have done what it takes to get a recruit to consider you and there are no other schools in the running. If at that point you notify them of the intent to redshirt could they potentially go back to uncommitted? (hermrats - Veteran - 9:58 AM)
Absolutely - it depends on the recruit and how he takes it the thought of being redshirted his first year. Of course, that doesn't mean he won't sign with you and if he does, there will be no surprises when you redshirt him.
Great Job as usual. Will it be possible to redshirt more than one player? I think we should be able to redshirt two. Also, I think Campus Visits should not become more expensive than they already are, but should be limited based on scholarship availibility. (ahausla - Hall of Famer - 4:00 PM)
Thanks. No, there is no plan to increase the number of potential redshirts at this time.
What effect will it have on the kid if he knows he will be sitting out,can we take it away if we get a bad reply to it? (cjbphoto - Hall of Famer - 4:03 PM)
Yes, you can decide to tell the player that you do NOT plan on redshirting him (promising him minutes or starting will also have the same effect).
Are these recruiting trip changes a precurser to the long awated Scouting Service? (Weena - Hall of Famer - 4:07 PM)
In addition to the reasons mentioned above, yes, it will be part of scouting services as well as the addition of player potential.
does the redshirting of soph's still work the same? (oldresorter - Hall of Famer - 4:09 PM)
Yes, nothing will change there.
You say you think it will make it easier to recruit in more remote places like Montana, etc ... how so? (daalter - Hall of Famer - 4:14 PM)
The cost changes expand the radius by looking at how far a coach can recruit in a day (no hotel stay required). These same changes have already been implemented in GD and what we've seen is that remote coaches now how more options when recruiting as opposed to just hoping that they get someone decent within and a couple hours of their campus.
Will the Sim AIs be impacted by the recruiting changes? It seems they already have a great advantage by using some sort of "normalized average" cost. (Weena - Hall of Famer - 4:14 PM)
No, the sim will not change in recruiting.
Will the home visits lose less value in the recruiting process since their price has been lowered? (tanzetti - Hall of Famer - 4:17 PM)
Home visits still carry a lot of value and the value has the same ratio to evaluations (scouting trips) and campus visits as it did before.
Will there still be no difference in cost between a recruit who is 0 miles from your campus and one who is 100 miles away? (bluespruce - Hall of Famer - 4:20 PM)
There are minimum costs associated with every recruiting tool to account for the overhead of athletic department - those that vary in cost based on distance are no exception.
If you tell a kid you're going to redshirt him, and then don't his frosh year; would he accept it (or be more apt to) if you tried to redshirt him as a soph, junior, or senior? (markydc - Prospect - 4:21 PM)
No, just like promises, the intent to redshirt only applies to his freshman year (or first year at your school for transers and JUCOs).
What determines whether there is an overnite stay? (Weena - Hall of Famer - 4:22 PM)
Miles. We're calculating about a 3 hour drive (6 hours both ways) is the maximum a coach will do without spending the night.
Are the cost changes designed to encourage more recruiting battles? (nfet - Hall of Famer - 4:25 PM)
That is not the focus of the cost changes - the focus is to get the costs more inline with real recruting costs based on whether or not a hotel stay is required, a regional flight is required, a national flight is required, etc. It's difficult to say whether the number of recruiting battles will increase or not. My gut says they will.
Admin, you said that notifying some players of a possible redshirt might "really turn turn the kid off to your program." Can this "being turned off" phenomenon always be overcome with some level of additional recruiting effort, or will some players never be willing to consider your program after being "turned off"? (bluespruce - Hall of Famer - 4:27 PM)
It can always be overcome - either through additonal recruiting efforts, through promises or by telling the kid you no longer plan on redshirting him. If it's just you going after the recruit and you want to redshirt him, it's probably wiser to inform him in that situation as opposed to being in a heated battle with another school - redshirting may (or may not) set you back in that race.
So if in one cycle you a kid is considering, then you say you may redshirt him and he hates that idea and stops considering you; is it fair to say (all other things being equal) if you remove that designation, the next cycle he will again be considering you? (markydc - Prospect - 4:29 PM)
Yes, if he's really turned off by the idea of sitting out his first year, you can simply 'remove it' and he'll go back to considering your program.
Do the kind of things you learn in evals or from the coach -- team player or "Teen Wolf", rides the bus or has a drinking problem" -- be an indication of how a recruit is likely to handle being informed of a potential redshirt? (daalter - Hall of Famer - 4:31 PM)
Yes, there are plenty of clues in the evals (team player=good, teen wolf=bad) as to how a kid may respond to being told he will be redshirted. Of course you can always tell him that's your intent and if he balks, you can undo it.
This seems like it will give a further advantage to the elites. They already have the prestige factor and now they will be able to go farther on less money. Are mid and mid-majors getting the shaft? (Weena - Hall of Famer - 4:37 PM)
Many of the top recruits won't consider mid-major schools anyway. That said, there is still a local recruiting advantage - it's less expensive (doesn't require hotel, planes, etc.) and unlike real life, Ohio State has the same recruiting budget as Wright State, the prestige is the difference. I think the good recruiters (regardless of program level) will continue to be good recruiters.
Will there be a reduction in the recruiting budgets in line with the reduction in most recruiting costs? (wisefella99 - Hall of Famer - 4:37 PM)
No, recruiting budgets will stay the same.
I noticed that the prices of evals and home visits has gone done overall. Does that mean it will take more visits to get players to consider you than before? (rachyla - Prospect - 4:38 PM)
Yes, the value of each has been adjusted to match their new cost.
How much more difficult is redshirting a player whom you didn't mention it to going to be compared to now? Recruiting is so dynamic that it is really hard to know who you will redshirt until its over. Assuming other things are in place that are favorable to a player accepting a redshirt (i.e. upperclassmen in front of them, no promises, good evals, etc.), are players still "likely" to accept it or now would you say they will be more "unlikely"? (cmthieme - Hall of Famer - 4:41 PM)
I can't give an exact percentage but it will be more difficult. They will look at the same things they did before (upperclassmen, personality, etc.) it's just that if you notify them during recruiting and still sign them, you know there won't be any backlash once the kid reports to campus. It becomes a strategy question - do you want to the risk while you're recruiting the kid or after you've signed him?
Does this increase the chance of becoming a backup option to some D2 recruits who outside the "local" recruiting area? (tanzetti - Hall of Famer - 4:43 PM)
No, the "70 mile" radius isn't changing.
If you tell a player of your intent to redshirt him, sign him, and then don't redshirt him - will his WE go up? (Weena - Hall of Famer - 4:43 PM)
No, his work ethic will not increase in that situation.
If a coach redshirted a player AND offered him a starting position, would the player then assume he'd be starting after his redshirt year? (agentverde - Hall of Famer - 4:45 PM)
No, you can't do both. If you notify that a player he will be redshirted, that will remove any promises you made prior in recruiting that player and vice versa.
Is a recruit's feelings toward being informed of a redshirt team specific? If so, what should I look for in deciding to inform him of a redshirt? (nfet - Hall of Famer - 4:48 PM)
It's primarily based on his personality and where he's signing. For example, if the kid is a low DI level caliber recruit and he ends up not getting attention from a DI program, it's unlikely he'll be happy about being redshirted at DII.
If you are unsure who you are going to redshirt, can you hint at redshirtting 2-3 recruits during the process and then when it comes down to choose the one that best fits your strategy? In other words are you "locked" into redshirtting a kid once you tell him you are going to? (Rails - Hall of Famer - 4:49 PM)
No, not at all - you're telling the kid that redshirting is a possiblity if he comes to your school - you're not bound to do it but at least he's aware of that possibility before he signs.
The description of the change indicated that we should expect the cost for evals and home visits to go down but campus visits to go up. On the chart included in the thread, however, it looked like the cost for campus visits had gone down substantially as well with the exception of (very) local recruits where it increased slightly. So are campus vists going up (per description) or down (per chart)? (hermrats - Veteran - 4:51 PM)
Campus visits will increase in cost for certain distances, but overall they too will decrease.
Even though there is a slim chance a kid accepts a redshirt after being promised something, is there any chance at eliminating that "strategy" and making it absolute now since now we can tell the recruit our plans ahead of time (and it appears even change our minds once a promise has been made). (Rails - Hall of Famer - 4:52 PM)
It will be very unlikely that a kid who is promised minutes or starts and then is redshirted will now be happy about that given the fact that the coach can now inform the recruit of his intentions prior to the recruit signing.
Why were the booster gifts taken out? (tanzetti - Hall of Famer - 4:54 PM)
The booster gifts were removed at DIII for a couple of reasons, one of which was that new coaches have no idea of the ramifications that booster gifts may have on a program.
Will recruits provide us with any information about another coach or school's intent to redshirt them? (tanzetti - Hall of Famer - 4:55 PM)
No, you will not be able to determine that through the recruit or his coach. The only way to determine that would be to sitemail the other coach(es).
Are campus visits still worth more per dollar than home visits? And do players respond to a mix of home and campus visits or are they indistinguishable to recruits? (jakurus - Hall of Famer - 4:58 PM)
All the ratios (dollars to value) are the same as before. Players can differentiate between home and campus visits.
Any idea when player potential and/or the new look will be rolled out ... we're all looking forward to it! (daalter - Hall of Famer - 5:01 PM)
Unfortunately the new look is taking longer than anticipated, but I think it will be worth the wait. It will also include quite a bit of new functionality (more data, new information, table sorting, etc.). I had initially hoped November, then December and now I'm hoping for January. I'll try to post more screenshots soon. Player potential will also be a major change, but nowhere near to the extent so it should follow the new interface relatively quickly.
Do you think the result of this change will be less redshirting and a decrease in elite teams being able to stockpile players by using the redshirt? (tanzetti - Hall of Famer - 5:03 PM)
Tough to say, but I do think it will make it more realistic. I think currently many teams redshirt players that in real life they wouldn't be able to sign if the player new he was going to be redshirted.
Will schools that are 60 miles away still have an advantage due to closeness? (rachyla - Prospect - 11:16 AM)
Schools within an hour of a recruit do not currently have any additional recruiting advantage - what they receive now is that some recruits who may have only considered that school as a backup option will be more likely to consider them because of the proximity. None of that is changing.
As always, thanks for taking the time to submit you questions!