The Michigan State Spartans Topic

Floyd Weaver
SG|6'4"|205 lbs.|2.8 GPA
Shawnee HS|Springfield, OH
SG
665
Athleticism94
Speed80
Rebounding22
Defense34
Shot Blocking1
Low-post22
Perimeter77
Ball Handling80
Passing82
Work Ethic60
Stamina70
Durability43
Previous Season Stats
GPMPGPPGRPGFG%FG3%FT%APGSPGBPG
232112.02.242.649.072.03.62.71.1
#13 SG, #73 Overall, *****; promised the start, promised 25 minutes. Floyd Weaver was absolutely necessary to make my class complete. I might have overspent a little on him, in fighting with Indiana. Actually, I must have, because he signed fairly early. I have no idea how much Indiana put in to the guy. His defense isn't great, but otherwise he's everything I could want as I transition the team from Man to Press. He ran Flex/Press in high school. I am positively thrilled to have him.
3/6/2008 10:27 AM
There is literally no reason to avoid posting this now. I mean, besides being at work and wasting time that could be productive. I am spent, whatever happens next, I'm fine with. I'm alive, at the moment, for a three-star SG who I like. I had no reason not to spend every cent I had on him after I wrapped up Floyd Weaver. Either Cincinnatti can respond or they can't. Either way, I'm very happy with this recruiting season. If I don't get the guy, I have two seniors and a walk-on, along with three juniors, a sophomore, four freshmen, and a redshirt. In other words, I'll be well on my way to having well-rounded classes, which is a good place to be when you're in a top conference. If I do sign him, I'll field an even more inferior team this year, with five freshmen starting, but that will build up a foundation for a new wave of success as the group matures together.
Here's what I've spent. I have one scholarship and $4 .
Francis RaybornSG436394250$47,054considering us among others
Clyde DalzellPG33639460$1,560considering other schools
Derek SimonPF103571260$110considering another school
Floyd WeaverSG136654200$49,825Signed
Fred WebbPF116164200$3,028Signed
Ervin HainesC1205544530$2,721Signed
James FreemanSF86644110$2,259Signed
Kyle LindemannPG37630450$2,169Signed with Notre Dame
Jimmy BrownC23623440$2,166Signed
Jeremy MarvelPF2362221600$110Signed with Manhattan
Micheal TriplettC66584220$110Signed
Russell BicknellC5462921200$110Signed
Edward HedrickPG6051570$10Signed with Miami (OH)
3/6/2008 11:48 AM
Recruiting strategy and tactics breakdown for Season 28:
If I had made that promise of playing time to Hedrick during the first cycle, I would've had him to myself. As it was, two other schools got into a little battle over him. He would have been nice if I had my Plan A work out, where Weaver signed as a starter and Rayborn signed as a redshirt. I knocked IUPUFW off of Rayborn when I got up to $20k on him. That school was in the midst of a disastrous recruiting season, getting into four simultaneous battles. I knew I could take them, so I went ahead with my plan on him. At first, when they were the only team on him after I'd stuck a few thousand into recruiting him during the first cycle, I tried to just stay in by promising the start and minutes. That worked, so I paid closer attention and eventually took it up to the $20k while telling him he was redshirting. A while later, Cincinnatti, a very local school (4 miles away from the kid) showed up, and I figured it was probably a lost cause. The only reason -- and means by which -- I stayed on him, was by offering him the start and 20 minutes again. When the Bearcats didn't knock me out and I unbelievably got to sign a trio of great players (Jimmy Smith, James Freeman, and Fred Webb) for peanuts, I put in another 10k after Cincinnatti took over the lead on the kid. I had noticed that Indiana, my competition for Floyd Weaver, had a bunch of other battles that they were in with other Big Ten teams, so I figured that I'd be safe for the guy with about $50k in him. That didn't stop me from feeling a little nervous as I upped the ante on Rayborn to $42k. It was a big relief to sign my star guard after 11:00 came this morning.
I would've preferred to keep Jeremy Marvel as opposed to Michael Triplett. Marvel is actually a very nice player, who would've contributed in a very positive way to the team for two years, whereas Triplett is purely a placeholder. Still, all I needed was a placeholder, and that was my original plan with Triplett and Derek Simon. It was only after a cycle or two had gone by with nobody showing interest in Bicknell and Marvel that I sent promises their way. When they responded and considered only me, I gave each a scholarship. Eventually I rescinded the offer for Simon, but kept it on for Triplett, which proved to be a wise decision when Pacific (not Manhattan) took my spot on Marvel's considering list. I was a little disappointed but not surprised. What did surprise me was when, last night, Pacific first didn't sign him and then dropped off of him completely. I let my conference mates know in the coaches' corner, hoping in particular that kdforester, of Indiana, would divert a thousand or two his way, which actually would've been really appropriate for his team (he was full up on guards and SFs - actually with three SFs, one of whom looks a bit like a SF/PF hybrid...if you've read my SMU thread, think Rodney Batista - and he eventually signed three freshman Cs but could've used the option of redshirting one so he doesn't have an empty frontcourt like this again).
Let's see, there were a couple other swing-and-misses, but really they were more check-swings. Clyde Dalzell was a first-cycle target that was another to consider IUPUFW. I didn't think he was worth a battle for my program, since he was basically a bench/development guy, so I backed off only to see Xavier get into a tussle with the ubiquitous little team. I then targetted Lindemann as a redshirt, because IUPUFW had horned in on Rayborn so I had to consider him as a starter, and Lindemann was undecided after the first cycle. Notre Dame and some other school also showed up on his considering list at 11 PM, and I knew I didn't consider him to be worth the trouble, either, so I took another strategic retreat, supplemented by an inform-of-redshirt so I didn't have an overly-long considering list. After that, I pumped money into Floyd, never trailing, but nervous, and waited for the first wave of signings to unload a fair chunk of the $36k I was sitting on as a rainy day fund.
All in all, I couldn't be more pleased with how things worked out. I feel like I made sound decisions and wound up with a very nice class, with or without Rayborn.
The grade I give myself: A
I still could've hypothetically done better, but considering all the holes I had to fill and the relative limits of my position, I am very, very pleased. I seriously doubt I could've done better, but until I sign a class of only five-star guys, I'm not giving myself any A-pluses.
3/6/2008 12:17 PM
Despite my best efforts, Rayborn signed with Cincinnatti. I wish him, and haasdr, the new coach of the team, well. I'll post him for the sake of posterity.
Francis Rayborn
SG|6'5"|205 lbs.|2.9 GPA
Covington Latin HS|Covington, KY
SG
639
Athleticism74
Speed76
Rebounding25
Defense42
Shot Blocking13
Low-post20
Perimeter72
Ball Handling64
Passing62
Work Ethic61
Stamina70
Durability60
Previous Season Stats
GPMPGPPGRPGFG%FG3%FT%APGSPGBPG
302011.02.759.943.672.90.50.10.7
#43 SG, #204 Overall, ***.

In the meantime, who signed Derek Simon? IUPUFW, of course.

Coaches Corner
DateCoachMessage
03/06kdforestercolorblind79, $24k. I stopped chasing after your sitemail.. Enjoy him!
03/06colorblind79thanks, OR. I just broke down my whole recruiting process for this season in my Michigan State tracking thread. It was an intense one.
03/06oldresortergreat class CB also, I knew you would do great and you did - overall, looks like the conference had lots of open scholies to fill, no wonder it was competitive
03/06oldresorterblud - nice job! - overall I go into recruit lockdown until I am done - but a passing comment, the big ten is hard to turn the corner with, what happens in the true elite conf's, they start making so much post season $, that they leave each other ...
03/06oldresorter...alone, and pick on the other conferences, we just can't quite seem to get that done here, maybe next year
03/06jlovicznot a good recruiting season for the Illini, if I lose this last guy I have no one to blame but myself!
03/06colorblind79kd, you should've gone after that JuCo PF I pointed out. He'd have been perfect for your team. Also, I'm wondering: how much did you spend on the battle with me? It never seemed to get close, but you hung in for a while.
03/06kdforesterYep, tough to get a great class in this conf. I only signed 3 of 5 as a result of going up against Notre Dame, Purdue, Ohio St. and Mich St.
03/06chaltainI empathize with ya flyer1950. Wisconsin and Indiana blocked me from the local talent I really wanted, so I'm settling for mediocrity near and a far I'm dropping all of my remaining dough on this JuCu center.
03/06tarheel06I find it funny that I am really having trouble winning a recruiting battle for an ok pg with a Southland conference team.
03/06CommissionerPlease note, last night we had a hardware failure. We're working on any related issues right now.
03/06flyer1950My failure to successfully recruit locally led to a natonwide search for mediocre talent that no one wanted to fight over very hard.I am with $51,000.
03/06CommissionerThere are now 151 job openings in World 5, DIII - refer a friend and earn credits towards FREE seasons!
just use this link >>
03/05chaltainHey, thanks colorblind79! BTW, good job! You had a lot of spots to fill and you brought in a whole mess of good young players!
03/05colorblind79if anyone needs a good Juco Jr big man, there's one in Idaho that just went back to being undecided. It's too late for me to take him, but I expect he'd come fairly cheap.
03/05colorblind79chatty bunch of coaches, here.
03/05chaltainWow flyer1950, you must be racking up the frequent flyer miles!
03/05CommissionerThere are now 176 job openings in World 8, DIII - refer a friend and earn credits towards FREE seasons!
just use this link >>
03/03colorblind79good luck, all
------------

The sitemail essentially said: you're free to battle me if you want to but I'm going after him hard, including promising the start and minutes. I think, considering that you have a Man-to-Man team, you should put your money elsewhere.

So maybe I could've gotten Rayborn if I'd kept the $20k or so extra that I spent on Floyd Weaver. Still, I can't say for sure whether my team is better off with Rayborn or without him. He's a nice player, for sure, and would've fit my system, but this way, there's more PT for my returning SF (as backup SF and SG) and I can start my senior PG, and I'll have some more money for next year's recruiting. I don't regret spending like I did. It was responsible.
3/6/2008 1:09 PM
Good luck with the team
3/6/2008 3:10 PM
Quote: Originally Posted By dherz_263 on 3/06/2008

Good luck with the team

thanks, dherz. I appreciate the well wishes. Enjoy retirement, I suppose. I feel like I've gotten a jumpstart from this recruiting season.
My old conference mates:
Coaches Corner
DateCoachMessage
03/06griswaldI know I could have saved over $12k if I would have colluded in advance with my Houston conference mate;)
03/06tannermccIts easy to have a good recruiting season when you collude I guess.
03/06cbrieseGood think colorblind is having a monster recruiting season in the Big 10, because he ruined SMU for years to come with his recruiting whiff last season.
03/06cbrieseWell, I lost out on my five-star gambit, but I did pick up a SF who is willing to redshirt, so I am happy there.
03/06cpkungcolorblind79 is having a monster class at Michigan State.
--------

Warning someone away and spending $50k on the recruit just to be sure that you sign him isn't colluding. I did get very lucky that nobody went after Webb, Freeman, or Brown. Sometimes you get lucky. Last year I got very unlucky at SMU when Oklahoma targeted every single one of my recruits. It balances out...I was helped along a lot this time by the name "Michigan State," I think, which has to carry quite a bit of weight in coaches, considering how strong of a program it is in many worlds.

[edit:]

Here's a whole thread dedicated to debating this point:

http://www.whatifsports.com/forums/threads.asp?ForumID=30&TopicID=329354&ReturnPage=&PagePosition=1&ThreadPage=1

If issuing an unconditional threat is considered an offer worthy of being called "collusion," which I doubt but don't know for certain, then I'm wrong and will have to avoid ever doing that again. I think it's fair game to communicate somewhat as long as you're not divvying up guys, especially if the communication isn't before the initial rounds of recruiting expenditures. Again, though, I could be wrong. It depends on whether one uses a broad interpretation of the language we've been given or a narrow one. I suppose I'm a strict constructionist. The people who disagree with me would be more along the lines of "living document" theorists.
3/6/2008 7:58 PM
it could have just as easily been a bluff. kdforester and I have never dealt with each other before, except maybe in passing in the forums. We certainly haven't recruited against each other before, nor have we exchanged sitemails. I didn't tell him the amount of effort I had put in or intended to continue to put in. He didn't have any reason, beyond the fact that his $24k hadn't made a dent in the race, to believe that I was telling the truth about my position being unassailable and my will intractable. He could take that or leave it as he saw fit. To some extent, as far as I knew, it was a bluff. I didn't know how much he'd spent. He didn't know how much I'd spent. The only information that was disseminated was that I asserted that I would beat him for the recruit, regardless of what he did, so he might as well get out. Without me meeting the guy in person and letting him look in on my laptop over my shoulder, the information was limited to his feedback from the recruit and my assertion. He chose to fold.
But whatever Admin says about it, I'll adhere to.
3/7/2008 2:44 AM
lessons learned today:
1) Whether it can be considered talking smack/bluffing/warning/whatever or collusion, it isn't worth sitemailing another coach about a specific recruit.
2) cbriese is a dick.
3/7/2008 4:00 PM
Quote: Originally Posted By colorblind79 on 3/07/2008
lessons learned today:
1) Whether it can be considered talking smack/bluffing/warning/whatever or collusion, it isn't worth sitemailing another coach about a specific recruit.
2) cbriese is a dick.
You are just so darn articulate, aren't you?
3/7/2008 5:37 PM
Quote: Originally Posted By cbriese on 3/07/2008
Quote: Originally Posted By colorblind79 on 3/07/2008

lessons learned today:
1) Whether it can be considered talking smack/bluffing/warning/whatever or collusion, it isn't worth sitemailing another coach about a specific recruit.
2) cbriese is a dick.
You are just so darn articulate, aren't you
why use flowerly language when stating the obvious?
3/7/2008 5:44 PM
From:Corey Napier
To:Coach colorblind79
Subject:CI Top 32 Recruiting Classes
Sent:03/08/2008 2:24AM

Well, well, well - guess who's recruiting class was just ranked #11 by CollegiateInsider.com? Nice job! Everybody in the Athletic Department is really excited - I think I'm even getting the administration behind what you're doing. Keep up the good work!

Here's the article:
College Basketball Top 32 Recruiting Classes

Corey Napier
Athletic Director
Michigan St.
3/8/2008 5:26 AM
beginning of the year:
NameYr.Pos.ASPDREBDEBLKLPPEBHPWESTDUFTTOT
Dwayne HilliardSr.PG929419669769797598157A765
Parker LumpkinJr.PG97971156123729797567756C-740
Floyd WeaverFr.SG94802234122778082607043C+665
Matthew MirelesSo.SF897361754165834858227955C-749
James FreemanFr.SF777041582270803450517734D-664
David AllenSr.PF394260584945171818585335D-492
Fred WebbFr.PF544167936966191734565743B+616
Russell BicknellJr.C553590538068151638475973D+629
Micheal TriplettJr.C27477747788211150657227C584
Jimmy BrownFr.C553983617689211438345855C623
Ervin HainesFr.C50297753736211629466256C+554
Martin WhiteFr.SG342885237242730848257C-409
Averages--645650574351413952536949-624
NameYr.Pos.FlexMotionTriangleFastbreakManZonePress
Dwayne HilliardSr.PGC-A-FFAFF
Parker LumpkinJr.PGFB+FC-B+FF
Floyd WeaverFr.SGCFFFFFC
Matthew MirelesSo.SFFB-FFB-FF
James FreemanFr.SFFFC-FD+FF
David AllenSr.PFFBC-FBFC-
Fred WebbFr.PFFDFFC-FC-
Russell BicknellJr.CFFFC+B-FB-
Micheal TriplettJr.CFFFB-FBF
Jimmy BrownFr.CFFC-FC-FC-
Ervin HainesFr.CFFFC-C-FD+
Martin WhiteFr.SGFFFC-FFC-
3/8/2008 5:28 AM
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