Posted by buddhagamer on 7/10/2017 10:36:00 PM (view original):
I'll preface my post saying I think the flaw of not allowing players to view all schools that a recruit is interested in should be fixed ASAP (either by allowing us to scroll or sort through other means other than alphabetically).

I think shoe would say that if you are vulnerable to someone who is not visible it is probably due to the fact that you aren't prioritizing the target (i.e. attempting to cheap out to funnel your AP/recruiting $$$$ elsewhere). Obviously there are risk/rewards to such a strategy but its true that some schools having a clear advantage over others through no fault other than picking a school with a low initial letter.

I have on occasion even publicly notified the user (ironically it was you at WF for Derek Flynn) when I was lurking on the consideration list even though I was not visible (I was letting you know primarily due to the fact you were considering cutting an actual player off your roster at the time for a recruit in CA which I was targeting to replace an EE at the start of RS2).

How would you want us as coaches to behave due to this? To avoid what you would call late "poaching" (while I assume if Alabama was doing it, that's OK since they are visible)? How about if you are visible for 1 or 2 sessions and then are pushed off (do they get a pass then?)

I don't think many people would argue that point about the considering list glitch needing to be fixed. To be honest, I'm just stunned that everyone is focusing their attention on me, but nobody is calling out the coaches that "intentionally" exploited this loophole. I admit what I did was unsportsmanlike. However, I'm being 100% honest here, I do not think it ventured into the territory of cheating.

I wouldn't have a problem if you did stay off the Top 10 list and snatch Flynn at the last minute. It's part of the game and I've accepted and have tried to take precautions and carefully plan out my recruiting strategy ahead of time. My issue wouldn't be with you, but with WIS for not fixing a known issue. It's kind of like getting angry at the other manager in baseball because he called a trick play on your team that was unsportsmanlike, instead of getting upset with the umpire.

As you can see with Flynn's 60 stamina rating and low WE I gave up on him after thinking it over. That type of player doesn't help me in a fb/fcp system, but I'm sure there was probably a 2 grade prestige advantage and knew you could've snatched him at any point you wanted to.

I would say Alabama is probably the worst offender in Phelan, he's done it to me on 3 different occasions. But I've learned it's part of the game. However, the 'Bama coach knows being at "A" he can't sit outside the list of 10, although I wouldn't put it past him if he was at Xavier. It's kind of ironic that I've exploited the WE glitch, but being at W have never exploited the considering list glitch. So since nobody has posted in this thread or even MikeT won't call this cheating, is everyone giving me the go ahead to do this?

Seble even stated, possibly in one of the developer chats that 3.0 was supposed to discourage poaching, but it clearly hasn't. So maybe it was a glitch he was exploiting since it's not working as intended?

Can we all get past all of this finger pointing/name calling and just come together as a community?
In order for us to continue enjoying this game that WIS created for us, we need to adhere to the principles of sportsmanship and we need coaches that either know this or can be taught. Coaches leaving will just make us all lose in the end.

I'll quote another portion of the Fair Play Guidelines we've seem to forgotten:

While simulation games can be an extremely competitive endeavor, it is important to remember that enjoyment of the game is predicated on a certain level of sportsmanship displayed by the participants. Occasionally, some team owners intentionally or unknowingly cross the lines.

As for your question, that is for you to answer if you want to employ that tactic (and in my book the whole blame for that oversight lies at WIS' feet). If you want to "poach" by lurking with Wake Forest, I doubt anyone here would say you're cheating using it (maybe questionable sportsmanship but completely within the Fair Play Guidelines).

The difference between the two is that I can plan/defend against your late poaching but I can do nothing against you artificially bumping up the quality of your players when we meet on the court.

Posted by buddhagamer on 7/10/2017 10:36:00 PM (view original):
I'll preface my post saying I think the flaw of not allowing players to view all schools that a recruit is interested in should be fixed ASAP (either by allowing us to scroll or sort through other means other than alphabetically).

I think shoe would say that if you are vulnerable to someone who is not visible it is probably due to the fact that you aren't prioritizing the target (i.e. attempting to cheap out to funnel your AP/recruiting $$$$ elsewhere). Obviously there are risk/rewards to such a strategy but its true that some schools having a clear advantage over others through no fault other than picking a school with a low initial letter.

I have on occasion even publicly notified the user (ironically it was you at WF for Derek Flynn) when I was lurking on the consideration list even though I was not visible (I was letting you know primarily due to the fact you were considering cutting an actual player off your roster at the time for a recruit in CA which I was targeting to replace an EE at the start of RS2).

How would you want us as coaches to behave due to this? To avoid what you would call late "poaching" (while I assume if Alabama was doing it, that's OK since they are visible)? How about if you are visible for 1 or 2 sessions and then are pushed off (do they get a pass then?)

That's pretty close to what I'd say/have said.

The considering list issue is annoying, and very few people dispute that it's a bug. It should be fixed, first and foremost because its un-realism breaks the facade of a recruiting simulation, but also because it is a (small) competitive advantage that some schools can use and others can't. It's not creating this huge competitive advantage for any given recruit, because it doesn't impede anyone's ability to prioritize. But some are finding ways to use it to pick off vulnerable recruits, especially at the D2 level for early period signers. They should fix it. But it's now apples and oranges with the redshirt issue.

When I (and I think most people) assumed the redshirt issue was a matter of a few stray points in either direction, these two issues were about the same on the priority list. Irritating little glitches that they should fix whenever they get a programmer assigned to this game again. It wasn't a four star fire issue until it became apparent that it's possible to get massive gains, and create a large competitive advantage. Now the redshirt issue is a four star fire issue, because if another world rolls before they fix that, you can be sure a boatload of derelicts with time on their hands are going to exploit. If it's ok for one, it's ok for everyone. And if everyone does it, what happens to the game?

Posted by MikeT23 on 7/10/2017 10:19:00 PM (view original):
Holy ****. A user at Xavier has no say as to whether or not he's listed.

Did you have no say when you repeatedly took several players on/off redshirts?

I was done with you, bro, right here.

Posted by MikeT23 on 7/10/2017 10:30:00 PM (view original):
Honestly, I feel sad for you.

Not only did you cheat, you defend it. There's something wrong with you in that it is so important to be good at this game that you'd spend 5 hours(your estimate) cheating in order to gain an advantage. It's sad.

Or maybe I was done with you here, bro.

Not surprising, Miketitty23 has always supported cheaters!

Go Patriots, beat Jets!!!

Anyway, back to thewizard.

As I said, I feel a little sad for you. Something is broken in your head. You sat around for 5 hours, redshirting players, taking redshirts off and it never occurred to you that it was wrong. You just kept plowing forward, dreaming of that possible NC you might get. I've long said that some people around here identify themselves far too much with their HD success. At the end of the day, a handful will say "Congrats on your championship" and then life will move on.

The fact that you drone on and on about how you didn't do anything wrong should lead to self-examination.

Posted by bronxcheer on 7/11/2017 7:12:00 AM (view original):
Not surprising, Miketitty23 has always supported cheaters!

If you noticed, MikeT is talking to himself again. But I'm the one that needs my head examined according to him...lol

It's cheating for sure since you purposely acted to get an edge and never told a soul. The guy hiding in the list, knowing it will be cake to get a player because the vh team feels it has no competition so it does not use resources is also cheating. Sniping a guy at the last minute when you are showed in the condidering list, like Alabama supposedly has done, and that I have done(to pcclark Providence) is not poaching but a recruiting strategy.

Posted by zorzii on 7/11/2017 8:21:00 AM (view original):
It's cheating for sure since you purposely acted to get an edge and never told a soul. The guy hiding in the list, knowing it will be cake to get a player because the vh team feels it has no competition so it does not use resources is also cheating. Sniping a guy at the last minute when you are showed in the condidering list, like Alabama supposedly has done, and that I have done(to pcclark Providence) is not poaching but a recruiting strategy.

Unfortunately, since now I'm done with MikeT, you're the next person I'm going to throw under the bus.

You are nothing but a whiny little *****. This has reached Day 3 and you are crying like a little child. If you ask anybody in conference chat, they will tell you it was talked about and in fact I had discussed it with 8 of the coaches in our conference. They site mailed me directly. Were you just not paying attention?

At this point, I don't give a flying **** if you think if it was cheating or not. I'm the only one that you called out, which tells me one thing. You are ****** off because Wake Forest is starting to get the upper hand on Clemson and you can't seem to accept that. You had even site mailed me about a month ago trying to convince me to switch over to something other than a fastbreak offense and fullcourt press defense, because you go with a 9 or 10 player team. You've even admitted hated playing against my team in the conference chat the season before. What kind of bullshit is that? Who does that? Seriously.

You've admitted to trying the redshirt thing yourself, so don't come onto the forums playing the victim card.

*Edited(I'm only in a debate with zorzi right now. All other arguments will be ignored)

Did Wake Forest get the upperhand on Clemson fairly? No, you cheated. And defend it. Because you're broken in the head.

But I agree zorzi wouldn't care if you were at Vanderbilt or Oregon.

Posted by zorzii on 7/11/2017 8:21:00 AM (view original):
It's cheating for sure since you purposely acted to get an edge and never told a soul. The guy hiding in the list, knowing it will be cake to get a player because the vh team feels it has no competition so it does not use resources is also cheating. Sniping a guy at the last minute when you are showed in the condidering list, like Alabama supposedly has done, and that I have done(to pcclark Providence) is not poaching but a recruiting strategy.

It's not cheating, for all of the reasons I stated yesterday in the now-missing "cheat code" thread (and it's interesting in and of itself that that thread has apparently been ethered). It's a loophole. It is quite telling to me that WIS Support has not called it cheating.

Nor is the "hide at the end of the alphabet" tactic during recruiting cheating. It's another loophole, which is made possible by WIS' own glitchy programming. And it's ridiculous that WIS has not fixed them both by now.

"Oh no, Support noticed the bug and that I'm the only one exploiting it at a high level...uhhh point fingers elsewhere! The alphabet is a lie!"

Super lame, dude.

Posted by zorzii on 7/11/2017 8:21:00 AM (view original):
It's cheating for sure since you purposely acted to get an edge and never told a soul. The guy hiding in the list, knowing it will be cake to get a player because the vh team feels it has no competition so it does not use resources is also cheating. Sniping a guy at the last minute when you are showed in the condidering list, like Alabama supposedly has done, and that I have done(to pcclark Providence) is not poaching but a recruiting strategy.

And I didn't say Alabama cheated, that never came out of my mouth. In fact, it was fair game. Frowned upon, but fair.

My issue with you is you have attacked me for the last 3 days. You haven't attacked anyone else that exploited the redshirt glitch. You haven't attacked anyone that exploited the considering list bug. This is hypocritical on every level.