Penn St. v. Regis in Beta Topic

For those curious, the recruit chose A- DII Regis over D+ Penn State. I rescinded a schollie to free up cash to send the last couple HV (I had 18 in before the pause). That got Regis only down to "High".

Penn State 1540 AP ; 1 CV ; 20 HV ; Start + 15 Minutes.
Regis - Can only assume maxed.

Frankly, when Regis jumped up to VH after the redlight turned green in the 2nd signing cycle, I knew that this would be my only question for the Dev Chat. If WIS doesn't think this is an issue...that a D2 team can even get to the RNG against a Big 6 team...then I'll be playing out credits and leaving.
9/25/2016 8:50 PM
Whaaat! But Spud told us it was IMPOSSIBLE for a D2 team to win a battle against D1!
9/25/2016 8:58 PM
But yeah I agree. This doesn't make sense.
9/25/2016 9:03 PM
I've lost all 4 battles in the latest BETA recruiting season (0 for 4) so far as an A+ Seton Hall with 6 openings. Each of them I had given 20 HVs, CV, minutes and even a start for one. Two of the losses was as a VH versus a HIGH and none of them were higher than a B+. In most cases, I had a good preference match but still lost every single RNG roll...
9/25/2016 9:12 PM
Vaughn Overcash in Utah, for anyone in the beta who wants to look up the recruit in question.

He's the #7 ranked PF, #36 overall, 4 stars. Obviously the kind of kid who would aspire to D2 ball despite scholarship offers from Penn State, Colorado (B Moderate), and Arizona (A+ Very Low).

Thanks for the update rogelio.
9/25/2016 10:11 PM
Yeah, if D2 can beat a big six team, the game is dead both ways.

I hope that crap is fixed before I draft in Phelan... Recruit that is. It looks like a lottery to me.
9/25/2016 10:16 PM (edited)
That's bad. My sense is that the probability spreads...VH to H...are ending up way too flat. Like 60/40 or 40/30/30. That's even a different issue.

This is a Big 6 school not being able to put away a D2 school on a top 10 positional recruit. Even as a rebuild, Penn State should have been able to keep Regis out of the RNG regardless of preferences. Conference prestige alone should have carried it easily.

To me, all the griping about scouting is trivial compared to the flattened divisional effort values. Division would matter to a top 100; conference prestige would matter too. Those are not nearly receiving the scale of value they should.
9/25/2016 10:25 PM
"If WIS doesn't think this is an issue...that a D2 team can even get to the RNG against a Big 6 team...then I'll be playing out credits and leaving."
That isn't the issue you should be worried about.

"Whaaat! But Spud told us it was IMPOSSIBLE for a D2 team to win a battle against D1!"
Not "impossible" if the D1 team has very inferior preference match-ups, lower listed prestige than the D2 school and doesn't make nearly as much recruiting effort as early as the D2 team ... but still highly improbable. Had the D1 team recruited like they really wanted this recruit, they would have easily blown the D2 team out of the water (that's the "impossible" situation I talked about for the D2 school), but evidently they believed what they read in the forums and didn't take the battle seriously enough early enough.
Instead of believing everything I read in the forums (and a lot of it is a crock, including some in this thread) I've taken Seble at his word whenever he described something that he knows better than anyone else, and I've been testing the parameters of recruiting against higher level teams myself. I've lost every battle but this one. I've lost when both teams were Very High, when I was High and the opponent was Very High, and when I was Very High and the opponent was only High. I've learned from those battles. I'm pretty sure I had only a small chance of winning this battle, but I'm glad I did. I learned from it, too.
And it was kind of nice finally winning one.
9/25/2016 11:01 PM (edited)
I take back everything I said about spud, he is obviously a ******* genius - he got the whole game recrafted to his maximum liking and is running with it. Enjoy your new spud overlord HD, I am gladder than ever that I am down to my last 12 days.
9/26/2016 1:50 AM
Posted by CoachSpud on 9/25/2016 11:01:00 PM (view original):
"If WIS doesn't think this is an issue...that a D2 team can even get to the RNG against a Big 6 team...then I'll be playing out credits and leaving."
That isn't the issue you should be worried about.

"Whaaat! But Spud told us it was IMPOSSIBLE for a D2 team to win a battle against D1!"
Not "impossible" if the D1 team has very inferior preference match-ups, lower listed prestige than the D2 school and doesn't make nearly as much recruiting effort as early as the D2 team ... but still highly improbable. Had the D1 team recruited like they really wanted this recruit, they would have easily blown the D2 team out of the water (that's the "impossible" situation I talked about for the D2 school), but evidently they believed what they read in the forums and didn't take the battle seriously enough early enough.
Instead of believing everything I read in the forums (and a lot of it is a crock, including some in this thread) I've taken Seble at his word whenever he described something that he knows better than anyone else, and I've been testing the parameters of recruiting against higher level teams myself. I've lost every battle but this one. I've lost when both teams were Very High, when I was High and the opponent was Very High, and when I was Very High and the opponent was only High. I've learned from those battles. I'm pretty sure I had only a small chance of winning this battle, but I'm glad I did. I learned from it, too.
And it was kind of nice finally winning one.
For the sake of publicly comparing the input and getting a peek behind the curtain, can you provide a rundown of what you had invested in the recruit, Spud? (Total AP's...I assume 20 HVs and a CV...start and minutes (again, I'm assuming based on what rogelio said))

Would just like to have the full picture in sight for everyone on this one. (and, yes, I realize that doesn't tell us when multipliers kicked in for both sides with regard to minutes and start promises and how they impacted subsequent actions)

Would also be nice to have a preference breakdown from both sides (these may have been disclosed in the other thread, but I'm not going to dig and search and I really don't think they were...).
9/26/2016 1:52 AM
this is insane! no way a big six D1 that put in max effort should lose to a D2!

i could see an argument that a D2 that maxed out and used a ton of APs vs a D1 with only a very small effort (like, just APs) in the 2nd session could beat a D1, but that's about it.
9/26/2016 6:39 AM
haha nice backpedal Spud. Here's the thread where you were whining about this battle

https://www.whatifsports.com/forums/Posts.aspx?topicID=496274

Here's what you said in that thread-
"In beta now, a D+ D1 team, even with poor preference match-ups, will easily take a recruit from an A- D2 team with +4 preference match-ups. It isn't even close. They aren't even on the same planet. Division is all that matters. Division trumps all preferences.

Surprise! Seble went waaaay overboard on D1 prestige and the division modifier. D1 is still it's own little world. Thanks for nothing, Seble."

"As it is now, Seble's division "modifier" operates more like an absolute barrier."

"Going all in doesn't even matter. That's my point."

"You mean like a D+ D1 and an A- D2? That's my example. The problem is, D2 team has no chance to battle, that's my point."

"So many "veterans" whined and quit over having to learn a new game, but what about all the new coaches having to learn all over again every time they want to advance a level? Seble, you better look at this."

So basically you were whining and crying about having NO chance to win the battle... and then you win. Ha. Good work.
9/26/2016 7:13 AM
Spud how many APs? If it is 3,000 we have to remember that would never happen in real HD.
9/26/2016 8:39 AM
" this is insane! no way a big six D1 that put in max effort should lose to a D2! "
Well, your "should" might not be everybody's "should." And in this case that isn't what happened anyway. The D1 team was too slow to realize what was happening. Actually, they didn't even appear on the recruit's list for the first day or two of recruiting.
9/26/2016 8:55 AM
A big six putting only a scholly in the balance should beat that D2 if the kid is a D1 player... Ranked one. Why would he go down to D2 when he thinks he is D1 material, why would he scratch his whole career not playing at Penn State. Be serious. We need some sort of reality check here. Penn State wanted him, no way he goes to Regis... I think there was other D1 big six teams on him, wasn't it Rog?

It needs to be fixed, it's stupid. Stop with the rules, the préférences the this and that conference prestige, team prestige in D1 need to prevail over any D2... I can understand a mid-major sneaking in and beating a big six for some recruits... But it needs to be a high prestige mid-major, not a D-...
9/26/2016 9:08 AM
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Penn St. v. Regis in Beta Topic

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